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28th October 2014, 09:44 AM #16SENIOR MEMBER
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Carbs are sugars, the ones to avoid are the simple sugars, eg sucrose, the more complex the chain of molecules that form the sugars the longer they take to digest eg complex carbs. I agree the amount each individual can tolerate is variable. Alcohol is also a simple carb.
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28th October 2014, 10:46 AM #17SENIOR MEMBER
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I saw a british doco on it once. They found out it was not ketosis, but rather the fact that high fat meals tend also to be high protein. The volunteers were told they could eat as much high fat food as they wanted, but on average they actually ate less than those subjects eating low fat meals. As it turns out, its the protein that fills you up, and as a result you eat smaller portions.
I am not a lightweight by any means (currently 100kg @ 6'*), but every so often it gets a bit out of hand ( i love my beers!!) so back to the old tried and tested no alcohol and small portions. Works everytime. I can drop 1kg a week, sometimes 2kg. Of course excercise is key as well. Now if I could just maintain!!
* Currently backing up from 2 years of hospital, knee surgeries, ACL reco from trail bike crash. Just coming good about 5 months ago and hit a kangaroo on the motorcycle at 110kph then broke my ankle. So for the last 2 years I have been unable to sail, ride, fly etc. Can walk about 1km before pain sets in, but its coming good slowly. Problem for me is I live about 700m from 2 pubs, so Friday night and Sunday afternoon thats where you will usually find me due to sheer boredom Hopefully my shed gets DA in the next few weeks which will give me something to do!
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28th October 2014, 10:58 AM #18SENIOR MEMBER
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Its energy in v energie out. There is other reasons (ie fluid retention) but for the best part its all about intake v output.
Of course, sugar is loaded with energy, so adding it to food loads food with energy. If you don't expel that (through excercise) then you gain weight. The problem lies in the individual though, because we are not all the same we don't burn up that energy the same, so diet and excercise regime needs to be tailored to the individual.
It seem from all the research I have read, the problem with fad diets like aitkens etc is people loose weight fast, but cant sustain it or keep it off.
The solution is to exercise and eat smaller portions.
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28th October 2014, 11:16 AM #19
Hi artme,
Both, in the time I can remember (about 73 years, depending how interesting it was) every food group has had its share of time as the villain and any amount of learned studies, both for and against any of them can be pulled up. My early memories on this subject was my parents following Dr Munroe's "Man Alive You're Half Dead", his idea was you did not mix the groups, you had a protein meal or carbohydrate etc and not mixed in the same meal.
Who can't be cynical with a whole industry out there trying to brain wash us into believing, doing, buying anything and everything against our own wishes and good.
RegardsHugh
Enough is enough, more than enough is too much.
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28th October 2014, 08:31 PM #20
I sounded flippant about this and apologise. I condensed the information on this subject to fit the thread. As I don't have diabetes ketosis is not an issue for me. I would assume those with diabetes would seek appropriate medical advice before playing with their diet.
The diet I followed warned against a prolonged state of ketosis and to be honest it is hard to keep to that type of diet. The diet I use recommends maintaining the diet for a month before re introducing carbs. Sugar and flour put on weight. Especially the type of flower we use in our processed foods.
I got this diet from a person who trains boxers. He said that while exercise is important for all the right reasons. It was still possible to lose weight with this diet. He was right as far as I am concerned. I lost a stone in 4 weeks without increasing my exercise regime. I am recovering from sciatica, so losing weight for me has improved my quality of life. After the weight loss I can move more.
TTLearning to make big bits of wood smaller......
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29th October 2014, 05:41 PM #21
The above statement is good to what I have been reading and what is generally been told and accepted.
Loose weight fast, not able to keep it off and put it back on just as fast.
Now lets think about this for a few minutes and determine in our own minds another alternative why of thinking. I would suspect that people put on weight over time and when I am talking about time I am talking about years. Now if it has taken years to put this weight, then people should be looking at loosing weight over a similar time period.
So I do not believe that there is a diet that can get people to loose weight and keep it off over a sustained long period of time. I would think that it would have to incorporate more then just eating. I would think that also being active is a major factor to keeping the weight down and trying to loose weight.
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29th October 2014, 07:02 PM #22SENIOR MEMBER
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The problem with fad diets is that they are unsustainable, you just dont get the stuff your body needs out of them. They key is eating healthy, maintaining good eating habits and portions size backed up with some exercise. Excercise does not have to be a gym, there is a guy where I used to live must have been 150kg, maybe even more. He is now at 80kg and all he does is walk and eat properly. A mate of mine, same deal. I used to regularly get up near 100kg in the summer, but start training for the running season and back down to high 80's no problem.
Then you come to me. 2.5 years ago, running 3-4 days a week and doing 10km fun runs every weekend in the running season, sailing every second weekend, technical trailbike riding. Dam trail bike got me, broke knee, torn acl, ligament damage in left hand. Just get back on my road bike for a trip to lake cargelligo and then I hit a roo at 110kph and break my ankle! Now walking at the tender age of 37 is a struggle. Too much pub time, not enough exercise and weight gain is inevitable!
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29th October 2014, 08:35 PM #23
Agreed about putting the weight on over time. The point is that to take it off you need to change the way & the what you eat and keep doing it. If you return to your old habits you will soon regain the weight, and that is what happens to the yoyo dieters. Exercise is important for all the good reasons i.e. losing weight, improved sense of well being and improved health. 1/2 an hour walk a day should do it, any more is a bonus and well worth it. So exercise wasn't key to my initial weight loss, but a much appreciated benefit. For me losing the weight allowed me to exercise more and enjoy life.
That is my personal experience, it may be different for other people.
TTLearning to make big bits of wood smaller......
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29th October 2014, 11:29 PM #24GOLD MEMBER
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I come at weight gain from another angle. Eat healthy, don't snack, well I have news for them, I have never snacked, never eaten fast food, always just three home cooked meals of meat and veg or similar every day. My alcohol intake is a few small Scotch and Sodas if I drink at all so where is the big gain for me? the only answer I come up with is exercise enough to lose weight but that is a diminishing return as your body gets used to the level of exercise and the weight loss stops. Believe me, I have been there and done it and there is a bottom limit to weight loss through exercise. If as I have done you try and discuss this sort of stuff with the learned ones who have all the knowledge they gloss over these points especially the exercise and its long term effectiveness for weight loss. exercise is good for weight loss up to the individuals lower limit and always good for our health and well being but it does have limits, ask any jockey or F1 race driver, these guys continually fight weight gain.
CHRIS
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2nd November 2014, 08:34 AM #25Skwair2rownd
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Well my weight loss has plateaued but I am glad to have lost the9kgs.
We both had blood tests and my results are the best they have ever been!!
Think I might ease up on the diet for a couple of weeks and then get back into it.
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3rd November 2014, 10:41 PM #26.
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Did this actually put your children in hospital or are you assuming it will? because Nutritional ketosis (NK) and Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) are completely different. Their is so much information and research on LCHF/Keto for both Type 1 and 2 now with amazing results, i even posted links here in some posts back in January. If your pancreas is incapable of producing even a small amount of insulin then you will need doctors supervision, but if you can produce even a small amount then it would be unlikely to enter DKA
Although i dont have either I can also rant on about Keto till the cows come home because I have been full NK for the last 15 months and LCHF for the last 26 months, have perfect health and lost 35kg in the process.
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3rd November 2014, 11:03 PM #27SENIOR MEMBER
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This does put my children in hospital, they are not diabetic they have glycogen storage disease type 3a, and cannot fast due to a lack of a certain enzyme in the liver and muscle. This is a rare genetic disease with vey little knowledge in the medical world, (vets will know more than most doctors) This is the reason why I have to read the nutritional info so closely on packaging, certain foods will fuel them for x amount of time depending on activity sickness etc enough about that now, All I know is when my kids are burning up ketones it is not healthy, sorry if I hit a nerve I have no knowledge of using ketosis for weight loss, I spend too much time trying to avoid it. Regards Joel
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3rd November 2014, 11:24 PM #28.
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You didnt hit a nerve, but as you said your children's condition is rare therefor i misunderstood your association between ketosis and diabetes.
Also i dont use keto for weight loss as Im way past that stage, i use it as a alternative (or in my opinion superior) way to power the body over glycogen.
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4th November 2014, 10:53 AM #29.
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4th November 2014, 11:06 AM #30GOLD MEMBER
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Have a look at Pritikin. He was the first person to study diet in relation to health. Hard to believe now but medical science hadn't made the connection even in the 1940s. Doctors were still putting heart patients on a diet of milk and eggs and no exercise. They thought heart disease was caused by stress. Pritikin noticed that heart disease rates actually dropped in war-torn Europe so he reasoned that stress could not be the problem. Then he connected the shortage of fat in the diet, particularly butter and cheese, to the drop in heart disease. That was followed by extensive clinical trials and it was found that many heart disease patients radically improved when fed a lean diet and given some exercise. Sadly the medical profession refused to accept this until well into the sixties. Eventually it really is 'calories in and calories out'. Less sugar and fat...more exercise...simple.
The ultimate diet - Eat food
Mostly vegetables
Not too much.
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