Thread: woodworking qualification/courses

You don't need a qualification to make and sell furniture. Just do it.
If you are serious about doing it full time you would be better off doing a business management course.
If you want to do courses to improve your woodworking skills there are a number of options around the country.
http://www.sturt.nsw.edu.au/ this is a very good one.

'Just do it' - Agree. Take the money you would have spent on a course and buy tools, timber or experimenting with techniques you're unsure of.

Running a business while working full time elsewhere is hard work and very time consuming - not necessarily producing what you sell but meeting clients, doing quotes and answering calls. After running a little sideline myself I have enormous respect for small business owners and I wasn't even relying on the income from my sideline to pay the bills.

That said it's enormously rewarding to start something and succeed so good luck, let us know how you get on.

safety, accuracy and efficiency is key. If you already know how to operate the basic machinery like buzzers, thicknessers, tablesaw/panelsaws and bandsaws, then I would suggest you are good to go and just do it. however if you are new to the trade, I recommend learning in the physical world with someone there to help and guide you. from memory the course module that is best was called 'basic static machinery'. it forms part of the course requirements to become a cabinet maker, a wood machinist and also (i think) a stairbuilder/joiner. I think it was a 5 day module (40hours).

As NCArchers says, specific qualifications are not required.

However, the training and practice time required to be a successful professional (i.e. able to make a living) in most fields these days is reckoned to be 10,000 hours (i.e. 5 years full time) and for at least some of this time working alongside or having access to a professional is required. A very small number of people are able to pick up stuff by themselves but they usually end up making a lot of mistakes along the way.

Before even considering a field the most important requirement seems to be a natural ability and an interest in the field, and by that I don't just mean knowing how to drive the machinery and the mechanics of manufacture. You haven't said what your previous experience is or what your existing asset base (tools and machinery) are but if you are starting from near scratch before fully committing to woodworking it may be better to try building and selling as an amateur (i.e. keep the day job and do it as a hobby) and then you will at least experience how difficult it is.

Given what I see presented on these forums, one aspect I think that most woodworkers fall down on is design.
I seriously doubt anyone can make a living out of making and selling basic furniture with a short lifetime (i.e. IKEA) in Australia.
About the only avenue left for for survival in the furniture business is to make pieces that are very well designed and made, and have some longevity about them.
Only a very small number of people have the design skills required naturally, and being very hard to teach and learn, not everyone can even pickup the design skills necessary to be successful no matter how hard they try. The is why furniture manufacture is often broken up into specialised fields with financial, designers, cabinet makers and sales people working as a team. The number of people that are fully skilled at all these is rare.

Short courses may be useful in picking up skills in very specific fields but I would not bank on any single short course or even a series of short courses leading to professional success.

A good course will teach you to work more precisely and quickly than you will learn by yourself - the 'tricks of the trade' so to speak. Also, it's not wholly true that design can't be caught. The theories of design, and there are many, can be taught, but good design requires the application of these theories to imagination. My observation is that the younger you are, the better your imagination, and the more you use it, in conjunction with the theories of design, the better designer you will be. Find a course or apprentice master who will teach you the practical and design elements of furniture making. You can only teach yourself so much.

So, once you've clocked up your 10,000 hours with appropriate schooling or training, and are making top class furniture, your next task is to sell it. If you find the best way to do this, tell me. I find that a combination of selling through a specialist gallery and working on commission works for me, but others have their own showrooms. If you do this, part of your making time will be spent selling (or trying to, unsuccessfully). How do you make contacts who will commission you to make for them? You can advertise, but half the money you spend will be wasted, and no one knows which half. IMHO, you're better off exhibiting, exhibiting, exhibiting. Leave plenty of your cards around, and keep topping them up.

Pay someone to create a good website. Link up with other workers. Several of my commissions have come from Sculptured Box of these forums (thanks Tony) because he does different types of box to what I do. Work out your pricing so that people will buy your work at a price that pays your wages and costs.

Good luck.

Hi Mr(Ms) Fish,

Alex is right about selling. It's the hard bit. You could try North Melbourne Institute of Technology (NMIT) in Heidelberg (!) as I think they have courses and semester blocks in Woodworking.
It's probably also useful for you to get yourself in with one of the Mens' sheds or any woodworker who is glad to have you round for a few hours a week. (PM sent)
Other than that, the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. It's up to you to take that step.

Regards,

Rob

Originally Posted by LGS

You could try North Melbourne Institute of Technology (NMIT) in Heidelberg (!) as I think they have courses and semester blocks in Woodworking.

Sorry to be a smart ****, but it is actually Northern Metropolitan Institute of Technology, rather than North Melbourne. Holmesglen also had the cabinet makers/furniture makers apprenticeship course operating a couple of years ago, not sure if they offer hobby or individual units though.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

You don't need a qualification to make and sell furniture. Just do it.
If you are serious about doing it full time you would be better off doing a business management course.
If you want to do courses to improve your woodworking skills there are a number of options around the country.
http://www.sturt.nsw.edu.au/ this is a very good one.

Many thanks for the link. Indeed, I am prepared to be in this business/serious side business in the coming years, for the time being, I am more keen on keep practising to build up some fundamental skills and knowledges. I am Melbourne based, doing some research on what courses I shall go for at the moment. I love furnitures/design/interior decoration etc, and I like building things, but apart from having a very strong interest in woodworking, I am also deciding whether I shall focus on manufacture/making furniture or retail/importing/showroom etc.

Originally Posted by Kuffy

safety, accuracy and efficiency is key. If you already know how to operate the basic machinery like buzzers, thicknessers, tablesaw/panelsaws and bandsaws, then I would suggest you are good to go and just do it. however if you are new to the trade, I recommend learning in the physical world with someone there to help and guide you. from memory the course module that is best was called 'basic static machinery'. it forms part of the course requirements to become a cabinet maker, a wood machinist and also (i think) a stairbuilder/joiner. I think it was a 5 day module (40hours).

I have and have been using my table saw, router, jig saw and all other basic hand/electric tools for some time, and I am looking into having a bandsaw and mortiser machine in the near future. Do you remember where 'basic static machinery' has been taught? I am in Melbourne, any compact course like this will suit me the best

Originally Posted by BobL

As NCArchers says, specific qualifications are not required.

However, the training and practice time required to be a successful professional (i.e. able to make a living) in most fields these days is reckoned to be 10,000 hours (i.e. 5 years full time) and for at least some of this time working alongside or having access to a professional is required. A very small number of people are able to pick up stuff by themselves but they usually end up making a lot of mistakes along the way.

Before even considering a field the most important requirement seems to be a natural ability and an interest in the field, and by that I don't just mean knowing how to drive the machinery and the mechanics of manufacture. You haven't said what your previous experience is or what your existing asset base (tools and machinery) are but if you are starting from near scratch before fully committing to woodworking it may be better to try building and selling as an amateur (i.e. keep the day job and do it as a hobby) and then you will at least experience how difficult it is.

Given what I see presented on these forums, one aspect I think that most woodworkers fall down on is design.
I seriously doubt anyone can make a living out of making and selling basic furniture with a short lifetime (i.e. IKEA) in Australia.
About the only avenue left for for survival in the furniture business is to make pieces that are very well designed and made, and have some longevity about them.
Only a very small number of people have the design skills required naturally, and being very hard to teach and learn, not everyone can even pickup the design skills necessary to be successful no matter how hard they try. The is why furniture manufacture is often broken up into specialised fields with financial, designers, cabinet makers and sales people working as a team. The number of people that are fully skilled at all these is rare.

Short courses may be useful in picking up skills in very specific fields but I would not bank on any single short course or even a series of short courses leading to professional success.

'making a lot of mistakes along the way' is exactly what I am worrying about, I did have some success(I think) on building things by watching videos on internet and reading books with lots of pics, but what happened to me was I ended up with making a lot adjustments(resize/sanding back to course etc), as a result, I was not efficient as I thought I should be, so yes, you are right, I think I need a professional to watch me.

As for the design aspect, I always want to figure out the relationship between design and material on the prospect of pricing/profit, for example, plain design with good timber vs creative design but cheap material, which will win? I know I shall not be worrying about these too much at a start, but if there is a good "short cut", I would consider it.

Below are the recent work i have done, it is plywood/spotted gum/Tas oak edge banding. It is an aquarium cabinet I made for myself.
IMG_3695.JPGIMG_3694.JPGIMG_3696.JPGIMG_3697.JPGIMG_3698.JPGIMG_3700.JPG

Originally Posted by LGS

Hi Mr(Ms) Fish,

Alex is right about selling. It's the hard bit. You could try North Melbourne Institute of Technology (NMIT) in Heidelberg (!) as I think they have courses and semester blocks in Woodworking.
It's probably also useful for you to get yourself in with one of the Mens' sheds or any woodworker who is glad to have you round for a few hours a week. (PM sent)
Other than that, the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. It's up to you to take that step.

Regards,

Rob

Thanks for your info,I was actually balancing between NMIT and holmesglen, kind of far to both sites. I am open to any thing at the moment, as long as it does not have a big impact on my full time job and life.

doing a quick search of the TAFE's I don't see any short courses in woodworking except for a really entry level course in woodwork involving handtools and some powertools. I do recall Holmesglen - Chadstone used to have short courses in the evenings for CNC operating there old Biesse point to point, so maybe they have other short courses structured around the basic static machinery.

the melbourne guild of fine woodworking have classes running all the time. check there website
http://www.mgfw.com.au/

Everyone here has very good points. We are lucky here in Canberra, there are many excellent woodworking courses, a uni with an excellent course, many fine makers and a few TAFEs. Much to choose from.

Despite everything I've learned over the 3 years I've been doing this, the most important aspects I found are:

• Know, exactly, before you even pick up a pencil, what you are making. If you dont do this, you are just farking around.
• Draw up a plan. Learn sketchup. Even basic drawings allow you to work out the kinks long before you make all your cuts 5mm too short. Even a basic design will add "wow" (one I did last night in 10 minutes is attached)
• Meditate. Go through the actions, tools, placement of pre and post-process parts, clamp ups... imagine the process in detail.
• Get all your $hit together. Screws, glue, bucket-o-water and raggies, locks, clamps... know where they are
• Do it quick. If you are doing it for your mum, you will never be challenged. She will say she loves the worst-ever chopboard. EVER.
• Pick up a customer and work REALLY BLOODY HARD to impress them. Start out simple. Once they have their claws in you they always come back. I hate the cliche, but "under promise over deliver" (I, am, I'll agree, a total failure on this part)
• Make friends in your area or online. I am very proud to know 9 people who are diligent woodworkers and 3 that are commercial pros. I learn an awesome amount from them, even the hackers.

Finally - books, magazines (new AND second hand), library, Internet videos. Subscribe to 10 or 20 "wood dudes" on youtube and review their stuff. 90% of the talk can be skipped through to get to the meat, but they are excellent.

One thing I've learnt from a career in IT (which is almost the same as woodwork) is those that go to school to learn a profession are not very good. They are simply purchasing a meal ticket. Those who have a burning over-riding passion to DO are the winners. Education helps, but its only a "horse to water". I kid you not... I've hired hundreds of IT people - EVERY SINGLE ONE of the best ones were self taught because they were driven.

boxes big lid.jpg

bookshelf.jpg

Originally Posted by LGS

Hi Mr(Ms) Fish,

Alex is right about selling. It's the hard bit. You could try North Melbourne Institute of Technology (NMIT) in Heidelberg (!) as I think they have courses and semester blocks in Woodworking.
It's probably also useful for you to get yourself in with one of the Mens' sheds or any woodworker who is glad to have you round for a few hours a week. (PM sent)
Other than that, the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. It's up to you to take that step.

Regards,

Rob

I am having problem to reply your PM, I did send it,but it does no appear in my 'sent box', I will try to work it out.