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27th November 2014, 10:16 AM #31
That is interesting, I have also noticed something similar with allergies.
I don't have a noticeable reaction to citrus but it makes my skin more sensitive to stuff I do have reactions to.Cliff.
If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.
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27th November 2014, 10:24 AM #32
It's called immunological priming and it works like vaccination. Most vaccines are composed of the antigen of interest plus an adjuvant that provokes the immune response. The antigen is the target but the immune system must be revved up if you will by the adjuvant to provoke a strong antigen directed immune response.
Alcohol and other things, for some just stress will do, set you up for having an allergic response to an antigen like wood dust that under normal circumstances you would not have a reaction to. The reactive glues such as CA and epoxies can induce a similar response both to the glue components and other allergens that you might be exposed to at around the same time.
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27th November 2014, 08:42 PM #33GOLD MEMBER
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Yep!, MDF is the "PITS" for me too. Only stuff I've ever used that makes me cough up blood. A foundry I once worked in used it for their patterns. No dust extraction, no rules, when the blood coughing started I quit.
Preposterously I still use the stuff from time to time, but with a good mask and extraction system. Would not use it in my Webber BBQ though.
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13th December 2014, 05:25 PM #34
Red bean - Miva Mahogany
As much as I like this timber, it is pretty nasty to work. I sanded a slab outdoors, with no DC and had a slight nose bleed as a result. I still have some slabs of it, although I won't work it until my DC is good enough.
I have been told that some timbers are worse to work than others because of the shape of the dust particles that come off it. I am doubtful if this is true, perhaps someone with more knowledge can answer this? I would have thought it was the chemicals that are part of the each particular species?
Cheers
The Beryl BlokeEquipmenter.... Projects I own
Lathes - Sherline 4410 CNC
Mills - Deckel FP2LB, Hardinge TM-UM, Sherline 2000 CNC.
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13th December 2014, 09:13 PM #35.
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In my reading on wood dust haven't run across particle shape as a factor. In the US Annual Report on Cancer, shape is not listed as a factor. The main factor seems to be be particle size which determines how far the particle penetrate into the respiratory system and the surface area which determines the amount of chemicals that can be leached from the dust. Shape will also affect surface ares but I have not seen anything on this. What seems to determine size (and probably shape) is the nature of the wood, and type of wood working activity. e.g. provided the machinery/tools are operating correctly, fine sanding of dry wood makes more smaller dust than chopping green wood.
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1st February 2015, 08:02 PM #36Senior Member
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blackwood
Have heard that Black-wood is one of the problem timbers-mostly about it's structure. If you gather some black-wood dust from sanding- you will notice that it clings to itself in an abnormal manor. Apparently if you look at the fibers microscopically they are barbed and readily hook into your lungs much like asbestos ( which is actually chemically inert as far as biology is concerned, but the effects-well not good.)
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1st February 2015, 11:35 PM #37SENIOR MEMBER
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When I started out in furniture making (late 1980's) Used mdf quite a lot, don't remember using masks much and had no dust extraction it used to give me sore throat for a couple of days.
Still use it occasionally but am much more careful.
I developed lymphoma cancer in the 1990's which was undiagnosed for almost a decade.Whether it was related to the mdf use I don't know but could have been.
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8th February 2015, 06:49 PM #38GOLD MEMBER
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A useful reference book
I can't see that anyone has posted this so here goes: A useful reference book in regard to this subject is by Morris Lake "Australian trees and shrubs - common and scientific names and toxic properties" Second edition 2006 published by the International Wood Collectors Society. Can be difficult to obtain but is a useful reference book. I do not know how much it overlaps with UBeaut's list.
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30th March 2015, 06:35 PM #39New Member
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i was told boonaree sawdust is extremely carcinogenic-does anyone have any info on that?
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7th April 2015, 02:40 PM #40Awaiting Email Confirmation
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Australian Trees Shrubs & Toxic woods
Hi Xanthorrhoeas & interested members:
Together with other co-authors (Jon Arno, Roy Tandy and Jim Flynn) I produced this list of toxic woods originally for th benefit of IWCS members, who are mostly woodworkers. Similar compilations of species were made in various publications, World of Wood (journal) and a book (A Guide to Useful Woods of the World) and later for an Australian Wood Magazine (Australian Wood Review). Most recently it was reviewed for this recent IWCS Publication (shown above), edited and compiled by Morris Lake.
The list of problematic woods includes many Australian and imported species most commonly used by woodworkers worldwide. It provides useful advice about what to do when handling woods (not just just dust inhalation) and cautions working with old and fungal infected woods as well.
This publication may still be available through Morris and the IWCS.
Eugene D
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3rd November 2015, 02:33 PM #41GOLD MEMBER
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3rd November 2015, 03:26 PM #42.
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While the book is useful it is important to realise that ALL wood dust between ~10 and 0.1 microns is considered carcinogenic. The size of the dust appears to be more significant than the species as the various authorities who arrived at this conclusion some years ago do not distinguish between any species in terms of toxicity they just discuss the size of the wood dust.
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16th February 2017, 07:48 AM #43New Member
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Hi Rob
I know this is an old post- we took down a eucalyptus tree in New Zealand end of Sept 2106. it was cut up in our yard and large logs removed. We pulched the remainder for the garden. There was a heap of saw dust lying around from the sawing which I distributed onto the flour beds in quite windy conditions. Since then I have struggled with hives, itches skin rashes that are not just contact dermatitis but spring up anywhere they choose. Have had a dry cough for weeks now which before was more just a feeling like I had swallowed dust. Nothing seems to help - went on prednisone - off that now and onto a detox regime....any ideas??
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16th February 2017, 11:09 AM #44GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Eugene,
Have (two years later! just seen this) please accept my apologies for the misattribution. I should have said it was edited by Morris Lake, not authored by him.
David
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16th February 2017, 11:34 AM #45GOLD MEMBER
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Hi and sorry to hear about your condition. I am a retired botanist, not a medico (PhD not Bachelor of medicine and Bachelor of surgery). Do you know what species of eucalypt it was? One of the commonest exported eucalypts was Tasmanian Blue Gum. A quick look at the book (incorrectly) referenced by me above shows that numerous different eucalypt species are capable of causing the type of conditions you are suffering from and that E. globulus is recorded as causing dermatitis while other species are recorded as causing irritation of the nose and throat, eczema, asthma and sneezing etc.
I am not sure if that information helps you but it may help your medicos get in touch with someone who has some more specific medical advice how to alleviate your conditions.
One other possibility is that, if the tree was dead or the sawdust allowed to lie on the ground for any time it could have been invaded by fungus. Fungal spores are notoriously nasty when inhaled. That could mean it was not the timber itself that has caused your problems.
Personally I doubt the "detox" stuff ( I have never seen scientific proof for it) but I guess anything is worth a try when desperate. You need medical advice not a botanist's advice but my suggestion is that may be better to continue treating the symptoms medically until your body heals itself. Unfortunately, some people never overcome an allergic reaction to timber dust (if it is that and not fungal spores) but, if they absolutely avoid future contact their symptoms eventually improve.
Good luck and best wishes for a recovery. I and other forums members will be keen to hear if you improve.
David
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