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24th February 2015, 10:55 PM #16SENIOR MEMBER
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Just had a thought on this,
You could use regular twist drills to remove most of the material,drilling random holes to the depth you need.
Provided you leave sufficient timber around the point the spur of the forsner bit cut into.Then using the fostner bit should be easy as you now have far less material to drill out.
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24th February 2015, 11:37 PM #17.
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24th February 2015, 11:39 PM #18.
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24th February 2015, 11:44 PM #19Intermediate Member
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Used a triangle file for the teeth and a flat bastard file for the face of the chippers.
This is very possible.
Yes a better drill press would no doubt make life easier, but that is a purchase for another day when i have more room. Holding the blanks has been relatively easy actually. Took a picture as it will make more sense. Two pieces of wood angled so the gap narrows and i wedge the blank in there and then hold it from the other side with a third piece of wood.
WP_20150224_006.jpg
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25th February 2015, 12:00 AM #20
You mean a steel file on Tungsten Carbide? If so then apart from any speed or press problems, that's like trying to sharpen a chisel with a piece of hardwood. Just ain't gonna happen. What will happen is that the file will be buggered, and the TC, if anything, will be blunter than it was.
You need a diamond file for TC (or CBN when they get around to using it for things other than wheels).
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25th February 2015, 12:07 AM #21SENIOR MEMBER
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Hi Bob, might possibly happen althought think it should work.
I have occasionally cut overlapping forstner holes with no noticable problem provided the bit remains firmly centred.
I certainly agree on some of the low powered bench top drill presses just dont have the power for using the larger forstner bits, I had this problem myself and eventually picked up a radial arm drill press with 3/4HP motor which copes with most things wood and metal cutting.
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25th February 2015, 12:19 AM #22
Just an addition to my previous comment: (and based upon using a steel file on TC). Because the carbide is so hard, to make any impression at all upon it with a steel file you would have to be using a lot of force, and this will affect your filing action. That will more than likely mean that you have changed the geometry of the teeth, and they won't cut properly - ever again. I wouldn't even try to sharpen HSS with a steel file.
There are two things to note about files: they are usually around 65 Rc hardness (about 940 Vickers hardness), and there isn't a single decent steel file available in Australia (or most of the rest of the world for that matter). Vallorbe (now Glardon) precision files may be the exception but they are reasonably hard to obtain here as far as I know (although their needle files are easy enough to get here). The garden variety files available in general hardware stores are without exception premium rubbish.
By comparison TC is ~2300-2400 Vickers hardness, but i guess that can vary (but not down to <940 Vickers).
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25th February 2015, 12:20 AM #23
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25th February 2015, 12:25 AM #24
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25th February 2015, 12:41 AM #25
This is what I would use for drilling end grain:
Colt MaxiCut Plus forstners (note the "Plus") and I believe you can get them on Amazon too. I placed an order for some saw files from Dieter Schmidt Fine tools and the postage was very reasonable indeed. Pity the files were crap (as anticipated).
Pics can be found here (the first five)
They are German design, now produced in France (presumably from European steel), High Speed Steel at the business end, and most importantly have a retractable pilot drill (a brad point drill). The pilot will go from zero to about 40-50mm extension (zero being that you can remove the pilot drill after the hole has been sufficiently started).
I only have one of these, a 20mm, and it's excellent, but I haven't tried to do what you want to do. They were designed for drilling at higher angles than a regular Maxicut can (the pilot drill allows that).
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25th February 2015, 12:55 AM #26.
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As others have said, if you have been making an impression on them with a file they aint either HSS or Carbite.
If you have been making an impression on the Forstner bit then it may just be plain moderately hard carbon tool steel and that would also explain why they have gone blunt so rapidly.
CBN shouldn't be used to sharpen TC anyway as it will damage the CBN.
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25th February 2015, 01:06 AM #27Intermediate Member
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25th February 2015, 07:53 AM #28GOLD MEMBER
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In my experience as a wood carver, I get to do a fair bit of end-grain carving.
All I have learned is that:
a) many, many woods go from cheese to bone as they dry out. A few don't, but they become
quite brittle/splintery instead.
b) the anatomy of the woody cell walls in branches is not the same as in a vertical
main stem/tree trunk. In short, branch wood is THE WORST of a bad lot.
Can you assign any ages or tree sources to the good and the bad?
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25th February 2015, 08:19 AM #29
Ok, carbon, not carbide. So going back to your OP:
If the wood is burning then there is every chance that the bits are now blue, which means in the case of carbon steel that their temper is buggered. This will also mean that the bits are buggered beyond repair (depending upon how extensive the blue is). Bluing of HSS is nowhere near the same problem because it tempers at a much higher temperature.
I think you need to source some new and different bits. I'll try to do an experiment today with my Maxicut Plus in end grain. I may have some scrap She Oak which will give it a pretty tough test.
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25th February 2015, 03:21 PM #30
Ok, I've just this minute finished drilling a hole into the end grain of some Spotted Gum with the 20mm MaxiCut Plus forstner bit. Not sure how that compares to your pods, but it's pretty hard (Janka rating 11).
Not using a drill press, just a battery drill. Had the pilot bit out to about 30mm, and drilled in 30mm depth with the forstner. As expected, the flutes in the pilot bit kept on jamming up so I had to withdraw and flick out the compressed chip every now and then (have to do this with fluted bits in most Aussie hardwoods anyway).
The hole was clean and very little, if any, evidence of wandering (remembering it was freehand), no burning of the timber. The HSS forstner was still bright and shiny.
There was a tiny bit of smoke when the pilot bit needed cleaning (the best indication that cleaning is required).
I didn't time how long it took to drill in 30mm, but it was fine - maybe 90-120 seconds?
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