Thread: Why Starret?

Here's a thought - acquire one of Colen's phenolic references (useful to have anyway) and take it to Carbatec to check what you are going to buy.

Alternatively, if you are going to purchase from the web, then post the phenolic to them and ask them to check before sending.

I used a cheap 12" combination square for years, until one day I saw a Starret for sale amongst some other tools in the local pocket trader magazine.
I went and had a look, the little old lady was selling her late husbands tools who she said worked as an engineer in the local sugar mill.
A friend of her husbands had come and priced the tools for her, I felt the square was a bit overpriced but didn't say anything, just paid the money as I didn't want to devalue what she thought of her husbands tools. Though I also pick up a couple of sets of Starret callipers that I thought were priced a bit on the low side, so that evened it out a bit.
It had seen plenty of work before I got it, I checked it when I got it home and it was spot on, after another 12 years of use in my shed, its still spot on. I think it was money well spent.
But I am a bit annoyed because my father picked up his at a garage sale for $5 .

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Colen Clenton has CNC cut phenolic 45° triangles for resetting his squares after dropping or whatever. They aren't shown on HNT Gordon's site, but I'm sure Terry could get one in. From memory they are about $20-30.

Gifkins sell these as well (or at least they used to)

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux
.....the reason I had Starret on the brain in the first place was because I was considering getting a hyper accurate combo square to have as my baseline for those when they ultimately need micro adjusting. Something I can KNOW is square....

Luke, it occurred to me (I am slow you see .. ) that there is an even cheaper and more accessible alternative than even the engineer's square (Ian, thanks for correcting my terminology - I think I called it a machinist square). Anyway ... just go and purchase a cheap plastic draughtsman square from the local newsagent. They are always spot on. Get angles as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

Gifkins sell these as well (or at least they used to)

Yes, I forgot - that's where Colen gets them from.

Sometimes you can get lucky. Maybe 40 years ago I bought a plain-jane set of $5 Spanish Made vernier calipers. They have been (& still are) more accurate than either my youthful eyes or any another pair of calipers could discern.

But I sadly had to give them away as failing eyesight has prevented me from being able to use the vernier scales any more.

I've since bought a moderately expensive set of "Blindman's" digital calipers with large numerals. They're utter rubbish! They flatten their batteries even without use, and invariably read something other than zero when closed after measurement! Vague to the point of uselessness.

I think it's time for something better. Suggestions?

Originally Posted by Ratbag

I think it's time for something better. Suggestions?

Stronger glasses?

Cheap digital verniers (et al) have cheap circuitry which inevitably leads to flat batteries. It doesn't take too long for good circuitry to pay for itself. I have a Wixey DV that i find very good - the only bug is that it zeros to wherever it is when you turn it back on - not a biggie, but undesirable.

Incremental tools carry a good range of Wixey (and plenty of other stuff like Jessem, Woodpeckers, as well as their own excellent Incra range):
https://www.incrementaltools.com/Articles.asp?ID=291#wixey

Scroll down a bit further for iGaging as well.

Stronger glasses?

Yes, that'd probably help. I wish they'd invent glasses that don't attract dust & sweat though, or mist up at the slightest provocation.

The calipers in question were of the non-stainless variety, and over the years acquired a patina of scale and probably finger-born acidic micropitting that no amount of elbow grease could shift. Finally the combination of diminishing short-range vision and low contrast on the vernier scale proved too much & they had to go.

You're not alone, Ratty. I have great difficulty reading standard verniers too, even with clean specs. Got a dial gauge that is still easy to read, nice black marks on a while dial, and the divisions are far enough apart to be very clear. Fortunately, I don't do anything that needs greater precision than it's capable of (0.01mm). One day I might be forced to move to a digital gauge, but for the moment, I'd prefer to stick with a method that doesn't need batteries.....

Cheers,

Hi Luke and all,
Mine are moore and wright and after forty years are still accurate even with a 600mm blade in,but as stated by others that degree of accuracy is not needed all the time's. When I purchased mine I was 1st year apprentice Patten maker and the we had to work to engineering tolerances in timber and had to have a critical degree of accuracy. It's nice to know they still have that ability even if I don't well (my eyes anyway).
Regards Rod.

Originally Posted by IanW

There is no such thing as perfect, every machine/tool/operation retains elements of error, no matter how painstakingly they're conceived or conducted.

Spoken like a true scientist This reminds me of some heated debates I've had with people regarding whether or not circles actually exist. But that's a topic for another time...

I like the idea of getting a Clenton triangle for $20-30. I think that would be a good thing to have around. It would actually negate the necessity for any kind of super accurate square for squaring my (theoretical) infills.

Can someone elaborate on this method of scribing two lines to test for square? Do you just put the square on a jointed edge, scribe a line, then turn it over so that the reference edge is facing the other direction and scribe another line from the same starting point and then see whether or not there is any divergence in the two lines?

Cheers,
Luke

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

I like the idea of getting a Clenton triangle for $20-30. I think that would be a good thing to have around. It would actually negate the necessity for any kind of super accurate square for squaring my (theoretical) infills.

I had a look here, but they are not listed. You could either give them a call all send them an email asking about "CNC cut Phenolic Triangles for Colen Clenton". I have a vague memory that they stopped doing them, so you may have to call Colen on 0408 338 582 becuse I reckon he'd have something lying around. Tell 'im I sent you and he'll be good enough to add 20% to the price.

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

Can someone elaborate on this method of scribing two lines to test for square? Do you just put the square on a jointed edge, scribe a line, then turn it over so that the reference edge is facing the other direction and scribe another line from the same starting point and then see whether or not there is any divergence in the two lines?

Yep, that's it.

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

...

I like the idea of getting a Clenton triangle for $20-30. I think that would be a good thing to have around. It would actually negate the necessity for any kind of super accurate square for squaring my (theoretical) infills.

...
Cheers,
Luke

Here's a link to the Gifkins set. $80 for the set of 4
don't know if they'd send you just one - you could ask

I picked up mine at one of the woodwork shows

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

don't know if they'd send you just one - you could ask

Yep, see here:
http://gifkins.com.au/shop/09-08-45-degree-square/

Damned hard to find on the site eh Nick?

Now if you want one that's engraved "CC" and not "GD" you'll have to go to Colen.