Thread: Plane Blades and Chisels ( A progress report )

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

is that a bridge I see in the near distance?

Maybe,
But what I'm seeing is that which lives under it......
Peter

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

Rob, I advise liberal amounts of Blue Spruce for that itch!

I really like Blue Spruce products but lately I've been thinking of making some more specialized tools directed to my tool-making. My objective is to make some long handled but short bladed chisels and floats for cutting and shaping the mortises into which saw backs fit. The folded backs I make do not have parallel sides and the mortises therefore can't just be cut with a saw as is the case with the milled style backs. As has happened in the past I therefore need to make my own.
I've just taken delivery of a small quantity of A2 tool steel. Any insights on the best methods for making chisels? Ray?

Cheers,
Rob

Originally Posted by Ray153

Ray was paid a sum of money to do the work required and has done nothing but dodge questions and make excuses ever since

RayG refunded your money when you asked him too. It's unfair of you to be taking digs at him now.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

RayG refunded your money when you asked him too. It's unfair of you to be taking digs at him now.

An open message to Ray153

As Rob Streeper has pointed out, RayG has refunded your money so you are no longer part of this project.

You have long been complaining about this project, it is now time to stop, any further posts on this subject will see you banned from this forum.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

I really like Blue Spruce products but lately I've been thinking of making some more specialized tools directed to my tool-making. My objective is to make some long handled but short bladed chisels and floats for cutting and shaping the mortises into which saw backs fit. The folded backs I make do not have parallel sides and the mortises therefore can't just be cut with a saw as is the case with the milled style backs. As has happened in the past I therefore need to make my own.
I've just taken delivery of a small quantity of A2 tool steel. Any insights on the best methods for making chisels? Ray?

Cheers,
Rob

Hi Rob,

If I was going to make just one set of chisels, I would purchase ground O1 stock, and file/hacksaw/grind by hand to shape then heat treat with a layer to stop oxidization. I have done a few like that, and while the edge durability is not as good as M2, O1 is easy to sharpen by comparison. M2 gives as good an edge as O1 with the right stones. O1 is much easier to heat treat.

The process we used was to get the outline water jet cut, then milled slightly oversize dimensions ( the water jet cutting leaves an angled edge. make sure you allow sufficient margin oversize for the water jet. We didn't and that problem has plagued me throughout the project )

Then heat treat, and for A2, see if you can do Cryo, for M2 go for triple tempered about R61-62.

Then the fun begins. Grinding and setting up for grinding takes forever. Do you have a surface grinder? If not you need to find someone who has.

Ray

Hi Ray,

No surface grinder here, only files and run o' the mill grinder grinders. I also have O1. Don't like it because of distortion on quenching, particularly for asymmetric cross sections such as floats. I've heard that LN makes their floats from A2.
My plan is to rough the shapes out on the bandsaw, grind to close to final shape with my belt grinder and then heat treat. When you say 'heat treat with a layer' what, specifically, do you mean? I plan on using stainless foil to limit scaling.

Thanks,
Rob

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Hi Ray,

No surface grinder here, only files and run o' the mill grinder grinders. I also have O1. Don't like it because of distortion on quenching, particularly for asymmetric cross sections such as floats. I've heard that LN makes their floats from A2.
My plan is to rough the shapes out on the bandsaw, grind to close to final shape with my belt grinder and then heat treat. When you say 'heat treat with a layer' what, specifically, do you mean? I plan on using stainless foil to limit scaling.

Thanks,
Rob

Stainless foil works well, just put a bit of paper in before you seal it to burn off the oxygen, I was thinking of rosemill pcb antiscale, which works well. PBC Anti-Scaling Compound

I've made floats on the mill, but never heat treated them. If they warp, then there's no easy way back. I'd be interested if you could come up with a way of heat treating floats without warping.


Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

I'd be interested if you could come up with a way of heat treating floats without warping.

Cut teeth on both sides?

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Cut teeth on both sides?

Hi Brett,

I've seen something like that method, clamp two identical floats back to back and heat treat together, but I've never tried it. I don't see immediately why it wouldn't work.



My apologies, I didn't know the double sided float was your invention! Congratulations on a brilliant idea. Like all good ideas, so simple. I'm think I'm going to try that.


Ray

I mean cut teeth on both sides of the same float like the one shown in the link. A) it's really useful having the two different sides in your hand, B) Should help to balance out the cooling faster on the teeth.

Could you temporarily attach floats back to back while heat treating to overcome the asymmetry and it's affect on warping?

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

I mean cut teeth on both sides of the same float like the one shown in the link. A) it's really useful having the two different sides in your hand, B) Should help to balance out the cooling faster on the teeth.

Hi Brett,

Yep, I got it, I edited the original reply already. Having teeth both sides goes a long way to stopping the warping. Sheer genius.

Ray

Thanks Ray, but ah, that's bit of a stretch

I just wanted one tool that had two sides to it so I didn't have to keeping swapping. The oblique teeth (which work REALLY well) came about because I sharpened a Milled File and tried it out, and found it to be excellent on softwoods across the grain and very very smooth on end grain (say 45° across the grain). Interestingly the MF that I sharpened was the one that was Sapphire Coated (which made it useless on steel) sent around to all the testers (inc yourself). I can vouch for the hardness of the Sapphire coating - it ate up 3 saw files just sharpening one side!

Now all that has to happen is for Liogier to use the tpi that I specified (finer on both sides) and not tooth the first 20mm of the toe (coz it cuts the fingers - like I said it would) and I'll be a happy chappy!

I have not heat treated any of these alloy steels only high carbon steel. May I ask at what point the distortion occurs? Is it during the heat treating itself or during the quenching stage?

Regards
Paul