Results 16 to 30 of 204
Thread: VFD install summaries
-
17th May 2017, 06:51 PM #16.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,829
Nice work on the glands Dan.
Its probably legal but I wouldn't use mains coloured coded wiring on a control circuit like you have done. It will be confusing enough to a sparky let alone a newbie and I would hate to think of the consequences.
Control circuits are low V (~10V) and very small currents some something like Cat5 cable is OK. Cat 5 also has multiple strands so a switch and a speed pot can be run through the same cable.
-
17th May 2017 06:51 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
- Join Date
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Posts
- Many
-
17th May 2017, 07:25 PM #17
Cheers yeah it was just a case of using what I had on hand as I ran out of hook up leads. I'll be replacing all the leads with new stuff when I install the motor so I'll make sure I use different colour leads next time.
-
18th May 2017, 01:23 PM #18Woodworking mechanic
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- Sydney Upper North Shore
- Posts
- 4,472
Thanks for the run down on the VFD Bob. Couldn't help myself - just ordered one
I'm on the lookout for 3 phase gear so I reckon having a good VFD unit on hand, especially at that price, is a wise investment.
Cheers
-
18th May 2017, 07:05 PM #19
I like your thinking Peter.
Give me a yell if you need a hand.Those were the droids I was looking for.
https://autoblastgates.com.au
-
18th May 2017, 07:58 PM #20SENIOR MEMBER
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Canberra
- Posts
- 769
-
18th May 2017, 10:28 PM #21
So say for instance I wanted to put a VFD on my lathe to allow digital speed control, with the Huanyang units I've seen it recommended to get a larger motor due to loss of power. If I went with a Powtran and had vector control would this still be necessary?
-
18th May 2017, 10:45 PM #22Novice
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- wairewa
- Posts
- 18
Nice work. I have been out of this for a while. Used Mitsubishi and Siemens variable drives in the 90 ties. Mitsubishi was unbreakable and very fast and stable. Lasted for ten yrs 24/7 before I got out. This stuff has become a lot cheaper nowadays. Keep following your posts.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
-
18th May 2017, 10:58 PM #23.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,829
Correct.
The effectiveness of Vector control depends on how well the VFD and the motor pair together. Vector control requires that the VFD tune itself to the motors characteristics. The motor parameters have to be entered correctly and the Vector control parameters set and there is usually some sort of tune up program that ends the runs the motor up and down the speed range to optimise the VFDs interactions with the motor. It's not always as easy to setup as you first think but I haven't tried it on the Powtran yet.
Here is a graph showing torque virus s frequency for a 1HP motor.
You can see the motor at 5Hz under vector control is generating slightly more than double the torque compared to the non vector control.
At less than 5Hz it
At 17Hz it's a bit less than double, and this continues according to this pattern up to 50z where it will be the same.
TVF.jpg
Of course you can always double the Hp of the motor AND use a vector control VFD
Thats what I did on my MW lathe.
-
18th May 2017, 11:17 PM #24
Okay cool yeah I'll probably stick with the original plan of a 2HP WEG and a Powtran as I know Vicmarc have the ribbed pulleys in that shaft size. Extra power always sounds good to me and the VL200 has a pretty decent sized work area on it so who knows what I'll be using it for in future.
-
20th May 2017, 08:35 PM #25
Case study 9: Secondhand 3 phase 3HP dust collector used on single phase supply.
This case study, and the guidance from NCArcher and Chris Parks, first introduced many of us to the Powtran VFD .... and the current excellent sourcing via eBay.
The background to this example is covered here...
Fletty's new shed WIP ....or is it a retrospective??
..... and in post 779 in the same thread.
Basically I wanted to upgrade my dust collection system to a 3HP DC with (mostly) 150mm diameter duct work. I purchased a secondhand 3 phase 3HP DC but the special shaft extension precluded replacement of the 3 phase motor with a standard single phase motor. I purchased the recommended Powtran VFD and today the installation was completed. NCArcher arrived as planned this morning and, after a cuppa, work commenced.
My current 2HP (modified) DC was moved out of the new acoustic closet....
image.jpeg
The Powtran VFD and remote control were mounted on the outside wall...
image.jpeg
The new, much larger, 3HP unit was moved into the closet through the soundproof door and doorway made originally for the 2 HP unit. It was a tight squeeze but all went well.
image.jpeg
The location of the VFD and remote was driven by the shortest distance to the motor and to be clear of the soundproof door....
image.jpeg
I am am very pleased with the outcome. Because of the VFD, I now have a 3 HP DC system which is mostly ducted with 150mm diameter PVC. The DC is remotely operated although the gates are all manual. I haven't yet measured the internal and external noise levels but it is certainly no worse than the 2 HP and may even be quieter!
In earlier posts and threads, my measurement of air flow has been criticised however it is all I have and I firmly believe that at least the relativity of the measurements is valid. Here is my journey over the last 2 years expressed in relative flow rates measured with the same equipment and mostly at the same 100 mm outlet close to the DC itself.
image.jpeg
2HP DC, 100 mm ducting, flow measured at 167 cfm
2HP DC(modified), 150mm ducting but mostly 100mm connection to machines, flow measured at 535cfm
3HP DC, running at 50Hz via VFD, 150mm ducting, flow measured at 865cfm
3HP DC, running at 60Hz via VFD, 150mm ducting, flow measured at 999cfm (= off the scale!)
So far, the 'downsides' are not deal breakers. The DC and impellor really howled at 60Hz and the VFD does hum when energised but idle.
In more anecdotal terms, the 3HP DC when first turned on, drew sawdust and chips that had been left in all of the ducts and other nooks and crannies by the lower flow rates of the 2HP DC AND, when I checked the 150mm boom ..... it swallowed the safety glasses kept on a hook near the docking saw!
Many thanks to Tony, Chris and Bob for advice and support.
flettya rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
-
20th May 2017, 08:44 PM #26GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- Helensburgh
- Posts
- 7,695
Are you running this at 60hz Alan? It looks to 50hz in the photo.
CHRIS
-
20th May 2017, 09:06 PM #27
-
20th May 2017, 09:29 PM #28.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,829
Thanks for posting this fletty.
One question.
What's the box under the VFD - is that some kind of filter?
Your comment " VFD does hum when energised but idle" reminded me I had measured the idle SPLs for all my VFDs the other day and I should post this.
The measurements provided for each VFD is 1m from the VFD at head height above the floor.
Shed background was 47dBA
The 1HP VFD on the shed ventilator does not have a fan so it was the same as shed background.
The HYs produced the following SPLs
2HP VFDs on the WW lathe and DP, 55 and 56 dBA respectively
2HP VFD inside the pedestal grinder (includes a 100mm 250V fan), 54dBA
2HP VFD on the grinding station (includes a 250V relays that hums a bit) 61dBA.
4HP VFD on BS; 58 dBS, 4HP on BS 56 dBA
3HP Powtran 52 dBA
2HP SAJ VFD 53 dBA
Even without add ons like extra fans and relays, where the VFDs are located does affect their loudness and that's probably why they vary a bit.
So the least noisy is the Powtran but it does not sound the quietest and that's probably because the frequency it emits is slightly irritating.
If all the VFDs are on idle (and that can happen occasionally by the end of a shed session) the total power consumption is <75W so that's not going to break the bank.
If all the VFD's are on idle and I'm standing at workbench one in the metal work area the SPL is 59dBA, while in the WW area (a bit further away from machines) it's 56 dBA.
-
20th May 2017, 09:57 PM #29
The box under the VFD has a RF remote mounted on the cover and its operating relay inside the box. This little remote (30A rated, $26 ex China on eBay) has a working range of greater than 40 metres ..... as I found out this afternoon by standing under my neighbours nearest window turning the DC on and off to see if I could hear a difference?
a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
-
20th May 2017, 10:26 PM #30.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,829
Thanks for the info on this. Is it being used on the control side or the power supply side of the VFD?
OK, it looks like this one, although the price is $15?
AC 240V Far Distance High Power 30A Relay RF Wireless Remote Control Switch NEW | eBay
I've seen a few of those remotes on eBay but it looks like it could another chinese "we tell you what you want to hear". Some have a fine print line in the description that says the 30A is "peak current" and if you look closely at the power rating they are rated at 3000W (or 12.5A @240V) and even then I wonder what the safety margin is.
If it is being used on the power supply side, on a 3HP VFD with a soft start it should be Ok at 50Hz but I wonder what the current would be at 60Hz.
This is what this one says.
AC 240V Long Distance High Current 30A Relay RF Wireless Remote Control Switch | eBay
Although the relay is marked 30A 240VAC. The 30A is for the peak current of your load. The rated current of your load should less than 15A)
AC 220V 50A Relay RF Remote Switch Motor Water pump Machine Power | eBay
At first glance these 50A rated ones would seem safer for non-VFD users if they wanted to switch a 2 - 3HP DC remotely.
However reading on it also says - maximum continuous power rating is 3000W????
On the subject of 50 - 60Hz, what would be useful is a device that could sense sawdust in a system and automatically increase the VFD frequency when needed. A standard dust detector/sensor would be too sensitive but some sort of optical sensor might work.
Similar Threads
-
LVL install
By extrajosh2 in forum TIMBERReplies: 1Last Post: 11th July 2011, 08:33 PM -
How to install the new big TV
By TEEJAY in forum HI FI EQUIPMENTReplies: 8Last Post: 31st May 2007, 12:50 AM -
how to re-install XP
By julianx in forum NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WOODWORKReplies: 16Last Post: 15th June 2005, 12:59 AM