Thread: Toothing Plane Problem...

are the teeth facing "up" or "down". "Up" corresponds to the teeth being visible when looking down into the mouth

The teeth should face "down"

With a very fine set which is how they are used you should be getting a build up of crumbs , just like fine bread crumbs . Is that what you mean by shavings?
The set should be very fine, you should just hear the teeth skipping across the high spots. As you go through traversing then straight finishing passes you will see the high spots getting larger coming down to meet the low spots . When there are no more high spots your flat and done .

So to set the set of the blade it only comes out far enough to just touch the wood. Tap and test by planing across the grain . The purpose is to scratch off the high spots . If the blade was sticking out far enough and working but hitting high spots and low spots , its set to far out . And not telling you anything .

Rob

Welcome to the forum.

thanks for the replies.....

Yes, when I use the plane it produces fine crumbs, but they build up in the mouth after only a few passes, saying that it still cuts, unlike a normal plane that once clogged stops cutting altogether. Perhaps it's normal that the small "crumbs" stick in the mouth ??


Regarding using only very light passes, if I wish to actually create small grooves I need to set the plane a little heavier, otherwise it scratches only very lightly ....

The type of shavings from a toothing iron don't fair well with a tight mouth opening. Suggest you increase the size of mouth opening to around 1/8" (3mm) in front of the cutting edge. That should alleviate most of your above mentioned concerns.

Originally Posted by Anotherplane

Yes, when I use the plane it produces fine crumbs, but they build up in the mouth after only a few passes, saying that it still cuts, unlike a normal plane that once clogged stops cutting altogether. Perhaps it's normal that the small "crumbs" stick in the mouth ??

Regarding using only very light passes, if I wish to actually create small grooves I need to set the plane a little heavier, otherwise it scratches only very lightly ....

I'm still not quite getting the problem.
Unlike a "regular" plane blade, the blade in a toothing plane produces crumbs. Every so often you stop planing, tip the plane upside down to remove the crumbs and go back to work.

Is this what is happening? or are the crumbs clumping together to block the plane's mouth?

Yes, my first instinct was the mouth opening but I hesitated to alter it as this vintage plane has had very little use but as it's going to be used regularly I think I have no choice. Would I be correct in saying that a closed / tight mouth is actually not any advantage on a toothing plane due to the fractious nature of the shavings ?

( I noticed your username, planemaker.......I posted a thread about beech billets that I hope to prepare and was wondering if my beech stock was suitable regarding the grain pattern ) Could you be so kind as to advise on the better section of the beech to utilise ?

Cheers !

Originally Posted by ian

Is this what is happening? or are the crumbs clumping together to block the plane's mouth?

Exactly, it's as if they are sticking to the teeth and not flowing through.....

Does the plane have an adjustable mouth or frog? I would be kinda hesitant to go filing on the mouth of an expensive UK made antique infill...

it sounds like there is more than 1 way to use a tooth plane.. And the way Rob describes it isn't what I do...

I use it when I am thicknessing cranky and hard wood... I set them for a fairly heavy shaving and then follow with the smoother to clean up the tracks.. For that duty - I generally use a big fat wide open mouth like Stew suggests - around 1/8"...

Originally Posted by truckjohn

it sounds like there is more than 1 way to use a tooth plane.. And the way Rob describes it isn't what I do...

I’m describing the way they are used for the fine or medium toothed wooden variety and it’s use for getting wood ( the ground ) flat prior to veneering . And veneering with Hide glue . Which is what they were made for originally. I have read of types of toothing planes used for cranky grain .Ive never tried a toothing plane for that . Here is one of my ones and the mouth looks real close to 1mm. Rob
7EC7F482-86AE-449F-B0CA-56A5E764AF36.jpg 6BAE5A01-CA92-475D-8A50-D8F5F2A6769B.jpg

Ok, now that makes sense...

Another application that now comes to mind...

Back in Ye Olde Days - it was common to "Tooth" a surface prior to glue up... The idea was that it would hold up better and not squeeze out all the hide glue... And so they would use a plane like that to cut very small grooves into the surface to "improve" the glue joint. They subsequently figured out that the problems with "dry" glue joints were from all the glue soaking into the wood grain leaving none at the surface to grab - not from squeezing it all out..

This practice largely ended somewhere in between the 1910's and 1940's.. They had failures on wooden propellors used on airplanes... So a number of studies were commissioned to investigate glue joints, wood surface prep, and the like... Their conclusion was that a smooth planed surface which was carefully jointed had the highest strength, typically experiencing failure in the wood rather than the glue joint itself... Toothed joints did relatively poorly...

Originally Posted by auscab

Here is one of my ones and the mouth looks real close to 1mm. Rob
7EC7F482-86AE-449F-B0CA-56A5E764AF36.jpg 6BAE5A01-CA92-475D-8A50-D8F5F2A6769B.jpg

That's very very similar to my toothing plane opening. When you use your plane do the crumbs clear in to the plane without a problem ? Regarding usage, it will be used mainly in veneering work to tooth the surface.

Originally Posted by Anotherplane

That's very very similar to my toothing plane opening. When you use your plane do the crumbs clear in to the plane without a problem ? Regarding usage, it will be used mainly in veneering work to tooth the surface.

Originally Posted by truckjohn

So a number of studies were commissioned to investigate glue joints, wood surface prep, and the like... Their conclusion was that a smooth planed surface which was carefully jointed had the highest strength, typically experiencing failure in the wood rather than the glue joint itself... Toothed joints did relatively poorly...

This makes much sense to me (but I think I have said that before, and others who know better disagreed). I think of it as gluing a plastic sheet to a smooth flat surface using just water - the sheet sticks like the proverbial (until air is reintroduced), and is very difficult to shift across the plane. Maybe those who disagreed said something about air presure and liquids - can't remember. Anyway, that's how I do my glue-ups. An evenly spread layer of glue so that the entire (smooth) surface is covered before the second piece is put on, and this just squeezes out a little bit of glue.

Originally Posted by truckjohn

I use it when I am thicknessing cranky and hard wood... I set them for a fairly heavy shaving and then follow with the smoother to clean up the tracks.. For that duty - I generally use a big fat wide open mouth like Stew suggests - around 1/8"...

Just a few days ago I was using my Veritas BU Jointer with their toothed blade to take out a hump on a Mango slab. Set for a fairly heavy cut and with the mouth about 3mm. All was good and getting big piles of crumbs, but what I did notice (and this is probably the timber) was that I got some nice lumps of gunk on the sole around the mouth so it stopped cutting after not too long. Scrape off with a razor blade and continue. The slabs are 50mm thick and >4 years dry, and the timber doesn't appear to be particularly resinous.

Originally Posted by Anotherplane

That's very very similar to my toothing plane opening. When you use your plane do the crumbs clear in to the plane without a problem ? Regarding usage, it will be used mainly in veneering work to tooth the surface.

Yep it fills from the bottom up With no problems . Maybe take out the blade and wedge . Make sure the throat and wedge are nice and smooth with nothing for the shavings to catch on . Specially the left and right fine ends of the wedge . Give it a rub of candle wax and rub it in smooth . And don’t have the blade sticking out to far . Just scratch away at the surface traversing so that it takes three or four passes to get rid of low spots .

5BB01330-F0FA-434B-B4D4-E03BDC8661EC.jpg 45D17580-A07C-4960-806F-BF40B428F7E2.jpg