Thread: Saw storage

Derek

I have always assumed the larger saws and mitre boxes were intended for carpenters in a time when skirting boards, cornice and possibly crown mouldings were substantial compared to today. A 6" skirting would have needed 6" under the back.

Regards
Paul

Love the smaller mitreblock and saw that would have 101 uses in my workshop will have to see if I can find one here in the UK. Great job on the restoration

I guess if the neighbor ask's if they can borrow a saw the reply would be along the lines of "sorry I can't find one".

too nice not to repost

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Regards the other saws in the till, they are 16" and 14" tenon saws, 14" carcase saws, 11" cross cut detail saws, and 10" dovetail saws. I like dovetail saws.

I sort of gathered that from previous posts.
So what I thought was a pair of Veritas molded-spine carcass saws (Rip an cross cut), is really the 14 tpi and 20 tpi dovetail saws.

for others reading this thread, how do you quickly tell which saw is which? -- as in "I want a cross-cut carcass saw, or the 20 tpi dovetail"?

Originally Posted by Dalboy

I think I will go with something like Ian's where the japanese saws rest down on the bottom but the blades are held in slots especially if I make a slot wide enough for the blade with the little plastic protectors on.

I thought of doing this and then decided not to.

I find my till works in the sense I pull out a saw, use it then put it back.

If I had to fiddle with a blade protector every time I used a saw, I would go back to storing the saws in a drawer

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Derek

I have always assumed the larger saws and mitre boxes were intended for carpenters in a time when skirting boards, cornice and possibly crown mouldings were substantial compared to today. A 6" skirting would have needed 6" under the back.

Regards
Paul

Paul, that has been my understanding as well. These saws generally are filed about 12 tpi crosscut, and do not work well with delicate small mouldings. I think the small saw is 14 tpi.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Paul, that has been my understanding as well. These saws generally are filed about 12 tpi crosscut, and do not work well with delicate small mouldings. I think the small saw is 14 tpi.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

The mitre saws were remarkably consistent right across the manufacturing range. As far as tooth configuration was concerned they were not often quoted in the catalogues as it was a Henry Ford job (any colour you like so long as it is black.....which I think may be a fallacy) in that it was any PPI you liked as long as it was 11ppi (10tpi). For example this is from a 1929 Disston publication (the catalogues rarely stooped to having to explain how many teeth a back saw had)

Disston saw toolfile 1929 Mitre saw.png

Simonds mitre saws I have measured all at 11ppi, but nothing is stated in their catalogues. Ppi is only mentioned for their dovetail style mini saws.

So 11ppi was universal for mitre saws right across the board: At least that's what I thought until recently when I read this from an Atkins 1923 catalogue (whoa, a catalogue with information! Clear the table and let's get into it. How good is that?) :

Atkins Mitre saw 1923 cat.jpg

You can see details of gauge as well as ppi. Although, in principle, the three different depths under the back were available, it was in fact the longer lengths that could be had with the greater depth.

Actually I am being just a little facetious here as the back saws did not normally have their ppi quoted. Atkins seem to be an exception. I am currently eating my hat. It's really very good being low in sugar, gluten free and lactose free. Actually, I think it suited the original rabbit far better.

Just on your little saw, that is really a back saw, which you made so I think that explains the different tooth configuration. Something I would point to is the different type of heel on the mitre saws. Also a large mitre saw with a, say, 26" tooth line will actually be classified as a 28" saw because it is measured along the back which extends further into the handle than the standard back saws.

One last point I would make, and I have to say I have not yet tried this for myself, is that at least one of the professional saw sharpeners from the internet uses extreme fleam when sharpening these saws. 35 degs from memory, although not so much as the 45 degs of Disston's no set No.77.

I really like your large Langdon mitre box .

Regards
Paul

Henry Ford's "any colour as long as it's black" is not a fallacy. Black was the only colour that would try fast enough for Henry's assembly line to work as intended.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The mitre saws were remarkably consistent right across the manufacturing range. As far as tooth configuration was concerned they were not often quoted in the catalogues as it was a Henry Ford job (any colour you like so long as it is black.....which I think may be a fallacy) in that it was any PPI you liked as long as it was 11ppi (10tpi).

Simonds mitre saws I have measured all at 11ppi, but nothing is stated in their catalogues. Ppi is only mentioned for their dovetail style mini saws.

So 11ppi was universal for mitre saws right across the board: At least that's what I thought until recently when I read this from an Atkins 1923 catalogue (whoa, a catalogue with information! Clear the table and let's get into it. How good is that?) :

Atkins Mitre saw 1923 cat.jpg

Hi Paul

Would it be more accurate to describe 16" and 18" Mitre Saws as big (or perhaps medium) tenon saws, with "true" mitre saws starting at 20".
(Only a wuss uses a mitre saw shorter than 20") ?

Originally Posted by ian

Henry Ford's "any colour as long as it's black" is not a fallacy. Black was the only colour that would try fast enough for Henry's assembly line to work as intended.

Ian

I think that became the norm in the later years when indeed the drying times on the production line were more crucial. Early models were available in a number of colours.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by ian

Hi Paul

Would it be more accurate to describe 16" and 18" Mitre Saws as big (or perhaps medium) tenon saws, with "true" mitre saws starting at 20".
(Only a wuss uses a mitre saw shorter than 20") ?

Ian

There was a big overlap in back saw and mitre saw sizes. In the smaller sizes the only difference between them was the shape of the heel, which allegedly was rounded on the mitre saw to prevent it getting caught in the work. I have to say I don't quite see what they mean by that so if anybody can explain I would appreciate it. In the larger mitre saws the distinction became the choice of depth under the back, which can be seen in the Atkins extract above.

If I can take the Simonds brand for a moment they made saws as follows:

Mitre saws (No.95) 18"to 32" (4" under back)
Mitre saws (No.95) 24" to 32" (5" under back)
Mitre saws (No.95) 22" to 32" (6" under back)
Back saw (No.96) 8" to 18"
Back saw (No.97) 8" to 22"
Back saw (No.98) 6" to 24" (Bay State brand)
Back saw (No.99) 6" to 14" (Babbitt brand)

The back saws would have varied with the depth under the back but this is not stated. At no time is any mention made for the number of teeth.

So there is some difference between the two types, but fundamentally the saws are the same and I'm sure many users would have just put a large back saw with their mitre box. Not everybody in those days would have been cashed up!

One more difference has just come to mind and that is mitre saws often had a small hole in the spline right at the toe. This was to insert a pin or nail so that when the saw was drawn back in the mitre box it could not come out of the rear tower. Most of my mitre saws have this, but I am not clear whether it was a manufacturers feature. All I can say is that the holes all look the same. It is true to say that this could easily be included on a back saw too.

Regards
Paul

I asked a similar question a while back - I wanted my japanese saws on the doors but not hanging from a nail or two

my thread

sawtill_8956.jpgsawtill.jpgsawtill_8957.jpgsawtill_8953.jpg

Nick

That is an elegant cabinet and a good solution if you don't want to drill holes. However, I accept that JP saws are a challenge to sharpen and may well be sacrificial , particularly at the lower end of the spectrum, so a hole in the handle may not be so abhorrent as it might otherwise be.

Your sawtill and Derek's sawtill and Ian's sawtill and Oraloon's sawtill are so smart. Just as well IanW has not posted a pic of his cabinet or I would slide into a terminal depression!

Ummm...I wonder if I painted mine .



Regards
Paul

Because of the design of the cabinet I had to have the handles down - If I'd had the handles up and hanging then I would have to stretch to be able to reach them