Thread: Saw File a dud, need advice

They are 6 inch slim tapers

Well they should be good for 6½-8½ ppi saws. Maybe higher ppi if they have nice crisp corners.

Well seeing that I have plenty of files and I have my grandfather's saw collection, which wouldn't have been used in over 50 years, then I had better start to learn how to use the files and get some satisfaction from using the saws.

Originally Posted by Huon pine fan

Well seeing that I have plenty of files and I have my grandfather's saw collection, which wouldn't have been used in over 50 years, then I had better start to learn how to use the files and get some satisfaction from using the saws.

I can see a separate thread in the making here.

Regards
Paul

Weeeeell.... I wouldn't say that it's not a distinct possibility.
I get a very satisfying feeling when I use his old tools to the point that sometimes I go out of my way to use them.
Unfortunate thing is that I probably will never get the chance to use all of them, particularly his shipwright tools.

It's worth noting that Isaac at Blackburn Tool sells the Bacho saw files and also the Japanese non-taper file that Glen Drake imports.
He says they sharpen well but don't cut new teeth well as they shed teeth, but the Japanese file works well.
He cuts new teeth on his saw plate with a Burr Toother - so not a problem for him.
Read more here: Blackburn Tools - Triangular saw files

Brett, did you hear back from Stu? He sells Atoma plates that are made by Tsuboman, so may be able to source the files too.

Nah. He already sourced some files for testing a few years ago, and they turned to absolutely first class, but I never got pricing on them. (he just sent a few samples) IanW has the last two of them atm. Those files are like the Drake parallel files, but leave them for dead performance and corner crispness wise. I never did find out which factory they were from - Stu kept that to himself. Certainly I know that the factory was in Hiroshima, which is also where Tsuboman is. After that, nfi.

Originally Posted by hiroller

It's worth noting that Isaac at Blackburn Tool sells the Bacho saw files and also the Japanese non-taper file that Glen Drake imports.
He says they sharpen well but don't cut new teeth well as they shed teeth, but the Japanese file works well.
...........

Isaac & I are definitely on the same page wrt the files he mentions. The Glardon needle files are certainly the most reliable & durable of all the files I've tried, & that does make up for their extra cost. However, even they aren't without the occasional lapse, it seems, I had a couple a few months ago that lost the plot very quickly. I was so surprised when the first one failed prematurely, I had to pull the handle off & check it was the real deal (it was). It must've been a batch that slipped through QC, because files I've bought since have all been up to standard.

Cheers,

https://books.google.com.au/books?id...0files&f=false

For the benefit of others, I will decrypt that post. A "blunt" saw file is not a used, worn out jobbie. It means it has a blunt, or truncated end, and by default has a parallel body. "Parallel File" would be a much more revealing description. Calling it a Blunt file is a bit like calling a Meat Cleaver a Blunt Knife - not very smart, marketing wise.

Not sure what what Stewie is implying with his pictorial posts, but I'm guessing that they are to demonstrate that no less a person than H. Disston called parallel-sided files "blunt". However, I have to agree it's not the best choice of name for something that's supposed to cut. It sounds like the sort of name a modern marketing division would dream up (like the genius who came up with 'natural feature grade', abbreviated "NFG" for crappy gum-veined wood! )

There has been at least one previous discussion on the merits/demerits of tapered vs 'blunt' files for saw sharpening (in the original long saw-file thread of several years ago, iirc). A couple of people said they preferred tapered files, reasons not always specified, but one reason that was given was that the tapered end makes it easier to see where to place the file as you start the stroke, which is somewhat at odds with Henry's assertion in the blurb that it's easier to see with the 'blunt' file!?. Could it be that was just another spurious assertion by Mr. Disston, to stake out a market niche? For me, straight or tapered is neither here nor there, what matters more is that the file isn't so fat that it obliterates my view of a couple of teeth either side of the gullet I'm aiming for. That's usually not a problem because a file with corners that are matched to the size of tooth you're filing is generally skinny enough not to be a hindrance. The large Japanese file Brett sent me is a bit of a problem in that regard because it is unusually fine-cornered for its size, but I can cope with it on a good day.

A parallel-edged file makes sense to me in one way, though. You are trying to make flat-sided gullets to keep the geometry true, and if you were to use mostly the tapered part of the file, this wouldn't be the case. With parallel files, the gullet will begin & remain 'square' (provided your grip is consistent & you don't wobble, of course). Does that matter all that much? Visualising the effect in my mind's eye, the change to the top profile of the tooth would be exceedingly small, so my guess is, probably not!

Judging by the shapes of some of the teeth I see on saws that fall into my hands, I reckon some saw sharpeners have more to worry about than whether their files are straight-edged or tapered.....

Cheers,

Actually, Disston was not alone in the promotion of "blunt" files as this extract from a Simonds Red Tang file catalogue of 1955 shows:

Simonds red tang Files catalogue 1955 (2).jpg

Sorry if this is going a little off-track from the original post, but there is clearly some dispute as to the purpose and advantage of either "blunt" or "tapered" files. I suspect that it is a matter of personal preference with possibly neither being right or wrong. As you can see above Simonds offer both types of file. I think it was around 1955 that Simonds acquired the Heller brand so it would be interesting to see what Heller had previously offered.

I would also draw your attention to the two types of "blunt" file. One being for band saws.

On a slightly different tack, double extra slim taper files were not originally offered and yet clearly fine tooth saws abounded. The dovetail saw in the Seaton Tool chest (1797) was 20ppi. As the taper increases to DEST I feel it is the reduction of radius in the corners that we treasure as this leads to more metal remaining in the tooth and consequently greater strength.

Despite "enhancing" the pic above for clarity, it is still difficult to read the type. The type for the DEST reads:

"The smallest in cross section of the Taper file group, this file is mainly used to sharpen saws with 14 or more teeth per inch." (The files are available from 4" to 8" long so this explanation is a little too broad to my mind.)

The "Blunt" band saw file reads:

Designed for sharpening narrow band saws with coarse teeth, this file has each corner cut with three rows of parallel teeth blended together to fit into and maintain a large radius gullet.It is the same in cross section as the taper file but does not taper toward the point. Furnished in regular or slim types.

The special handsaw file reads:

Designed specially for use on handsaws, this file is the same in cross section as the Extra Slim Taper files, but does not taper toward the point. It has cut edges or corners to maintain round saw gullets.

I doubt this information has made the selection any clearer as there is obviously huge overlap. At best it is probably just more information .

On a completely separate note, I am now able to post pix again following a glitch in the system. One of my comments on the pix issue was misinterpreted as me slagging off the moderators. The "offended" comment (in another post) was a tongue in cheek aside with which my poor command of the language has let me down. I would like it on the record that the moderators perform an excellent, and largely thankless task. I count at least a couple of the mods among personal friends and to malign them in any way was the complete antithesis of my intent.

Regards
Paul

Amazing amount of learning here, thanks so much folks. Blown away too by all your generosity in sharing, and especially to Colin who sent me 3 tapers. Job done, brilliant Colin thanks!

Pics attached, primitive setup but got the job done well, jammed an old handle on one, got thru the job in ten minutes, what a different file it is to that Nicholson.