Thread: Advice on identifying and restoring Disston saw

Haha... You can talk... You still have about, what, I dunno... 30-odd sawsets left!?!?

The one you gave me is a beauty. I pulled it apart and cleaned (not that it really needed it) and regreased and it's excellent.
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Thanks again Matt
Regards Adam

Originally Posted by Stratman

Haha... You can talk... You still have about, what, I dunno... 30-odd sawsets left!?!?

The one you gave me is a beauty. I pulled it apart and cleaned (not that it really needed it) and regreased and it's excellent.
20190401_211019.jpg20190401_211050.jpg

Thanks again Matt
Regards Adam

Not quite 30 [emoji849]
It’s under 10 and that is heaps more than I need.
Cheers Matt.

Adam, a couple of points on using your new saw-set. First, an urban myth says that the numbers on the rotatable 'anvil' correspond to the tpi of your saw. In a few specific instances they might, but the numbers are really just for guidance & future reference when setting a range of different saws. The purpose of the exercise is to push the teeth over sufficiently to make a kerf that will allow the saw blade to pass through easily. A kerf that is around 20% wider than the thickness of the blade is a rough guide, but you may need more if you regularly saw semi-dry softwoods, or a bit less if you only munch nice, dry hardwoods. Preferred set also varies from person to person, as with so many such things, some like a little more, some less.

With my Eclipses, for e.g. a setting of '8' for an 8tpi saw would put too much set on a saw like yours for for my needs. Note that the rule of thumb is to bend only the top 3rd, or at most the top half of the tooth over. If you see obvious crimping of the base of the tooth, you are setting them far too much. I did a bit of that in my early days, mostly because I was using a set with a too-large hammer on small teeth, but I've too-often seen over-set teeth on large saws from over-zealous setting.

So, if the set is proportional to blade thickness it's axiomatic that the amount of set required will vary with blade thickness. Saw blades in an average tool kit can vary from 0.4 to over 1mm thick. To get the theoretical perfect set on the top 3rd of each tooth, the slope of the chamfer on the anvil of the set should also vary, but that's simply not practical, so what we do is vary the amount of tooth that is pushed over. So you can see why I say the numbers are not absolute, simply guides...

The less set, the less wood you have to remove with each stroke, but correct set is about more than saving sweat. The right amount allows you to saw freely, without 'wobble' and follow the line easily. Out of curiosity I've been through the exercise of measuring kerfs with a feeler gauge after setting the same gauge plate various amounts. It's an interesting way to waste a day or more, but far too much faffing about for normal, sensible people who just want to shharpen a few saws. A little common sense & caution will soon sort it out for you. I suggest you start by setting the anvil to a number at least 2 less than the number of tpi and try it. If it's not enough, the saw will bind by the time you get 20-30mm into the cut. On an over-set saw, the blade tends to wobble & vibrate as you saw, it will wander either side of the line, & leave you with a very wavy, ragged cut. It's easy enough to add a bit more set if required, difficult to reduce it, so better to under-do it than over-do it on your first try.

Lastly, setting one side more than the other makes the saw cut to the over-set side. A properly-set saw should track straight without your having to constantly force it back on the line. The trick is to learn to be consistent. The first piston/plunger grabs the plate & pushes it 'square' against the anvil, & as long as you squeeze the handles down firmly, the small hammer/plunger should push each tooth hard against the chamfer of the anvil. However, that depends on your placing the set so the hammer hits each tooth squarely at the same point each time - if you place it a bit far forward or back, it can just mush the edge or twist the tip slightly. It takes a bit of concentration & practice to become truly consistent - it's all too easy to let your attention wander a little when dealing with a couple of hundred teeth (damhik!). Most people get the set a wee bit assymetrical the first few times. This can be corrected quite easily. Note which side the saw wants to veer to. Take a medium-coarse sharpening stone and lay it on the teeth on that side, then gently swipe it along the full length. Just make one, or at the most two, light passes then test it. You'll be surprised at what a difference a single pass or two can make. (N.B. Don't use one of your prized water stones for this exercise, they are far too soft & you'll make a right mess of it! Use an old-style vitrified carborundum or India stone.)

I hope that doesn't sound too intimidating, but it's really not rocket science, just a matter of patience & practice & you'll get the hang of it after a few tries. I read somewhere that a not-too-well sharpened saw still cuts a lot better than a dull one, & in most cases I would agree with that sentiment!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Not quite 30 [emoji849]
It’s under 10 and that is heaps more than I need.....

Yep - 3 sets cover all my needs from 20tpi dovetailers to 3/5 tpi ripsaws, & I could get away with 2 if I wished. I've reduced the width of the hammer on one of my oldies so it fits 12tpi sized teeth a bit more neatly, & made the other a bit broader for large fangs.

Cheers,

Ah thank you Ian! Another post that consolidates all the bits and pieces I've read about saw setting. Just so you know, I DO search/research for myself and look for other info, and a lot of it is contradictory or confusing... and then you post another gem! It has really helps me 'sort the wheat from the chaff' so to speak. Just don't want you to think I'm lazy and not prepared to research myself But your posts (and Paul's) have taught me a whole lot more than I've managed to learn from other sources. Thanks Ian, just brilliant!

I have been wondering about what setting I should use. I think the saw is already over set. I tried a few cuts before restoring and the blade really wobbled around at the top... and would easily wander off line (also due to my technique!). I've seen Paul Sellers set up a flat hammer in a vise as an anvil and pass the teeth along this as he gently hammers the teeth back closer together a bit. Do you think I should do this? When I did a test with the saw-set it seemed to be set at around 10 on the tool! Way too much then.

I hadn't thought about focusing on the actual position of the tool - placing it squarely and at the same point each time. I will be very conscious of that, thanks Ian.

I have diamond plates (3" x 8") for my sharpening so I would imagine that they'd be just as suitable. Can't muck those up too much

Sorry for the delay with this post. I've been flat out and haven't had the time to do much at all. I'm still waiting on the files to arrive and the handle to completely dry before waxing. It's been nearly a week now but I can still feel some very slight tackiness around the end-grain. The handle is inside but I will definitely wait until it's completely dry before waxing. I did polish the brass screws and they look great. Just waiting to get it all back together to sharpen and use. "Patience is a virtue", so they say

Thanks again, Ian. This post has made the whole process LESS intimidating for me!
Regards Adam

No sweat Adam - having been down the road myself, I'm just trying to think back to those points that caused me grief or difficulties. You are not wrong about conflicting advice out there, much of it doesn't matter, it's six of one or half a dozen of another. That's why I pointed you at the 'Saw filing treatise', it is basically sound & if you follow it you should get good results. As you acquire experience, you'll undoubtedly want to modify some things & try alternatives - that's how progress is made! My mantra has always been 'go back to first principles', i.e. what, exactly, am I trying to do here, & how best can I achieve it with the tools & skills I have at my disposal?

There area several ways to ease the set on an over-set saw. You could follow Mr. Sellars' method, but remember that he has a lot of experience and skill that he tends to discount. I haven't seen the video you refer to, but a couple of things I've watched him demonstrate he made look simple & easy, when it ain't necessarily so. Hammer setting teeth is a skill I don't have & I think at my age & stage it's unlikely I ever will, so I stick to the safer pliers-type setting method. But by all means try whatever you feel comfy with!

If the over-set isn't horrendous, I would just ignore it at this point. You may well find that by the time you joint & re-form the teeth, you will have lost enough from the tops to reduce the set markedly. I would get that part of the process done, then run the set over the teeth at what you think is a more suitable setting. With luck, most or all of the teeth will be close to what you want, & if there are a few outliers, you can clean those off with your diamond stones. (I've never tried using any of my diamond plates to clean up errant saw teeth, but I guess they should do the job just as well as a carborundum of India).

Another method that pmcgee posted, several years ago now (tried a search but can't find it, so apologies if I've got any details wrong), involved putting a strip of paper along the blade, just above the teeth then squeezing in a vise. The idea is the paper strips preserve the degree of set required, so you choose your paper thickness accordingly. IIRC, he was doing it on a backsaw, so the short vise jaws weren't such a limitation, but with your longer saw, it might work better if you used a couple of added hardwood jaws for the squeezing bit.

Just putting your saw on a smooth bit of hardwood & gently tapping along the toothline with a mallet might be enough to do the trick.

So there are ways & means, but as I said, I think I'd prefer to just clean it up & straighten the existing teeth, then see where I was at....

Cheers,

Thanks Ian

Agreed on how simple Mr Sellers can make things look!

From what you've said about the over-set, I will leave it as suggested until I've jointed and sharpened the teeth. I can see now that it could potentially reduce the set. Much easier option to start with for a 'noob'

"'Please Mr Postman', Where are my files!?!?"

Regards Adam

Adam

I am not all keen on reducing set by exerting reverse force on the teeth by any method. Possibly one of the methods will work for you, but break off one single tooth and you have an abomination.

Not really, but you then have the choice of living with the toothless wonder or jointing the saw down to the level of the broken tooth and re filing the whole saw! I can say that from experience on a handsaw that is a lot of work and you can probably expect to use at least one file up completely and be a good way through the second file before shaping and sharpening are complete. Approaching two hundred teeth on even a 26" saw with 8ppi and probably twelve file strokes to achieve shaping and another three for sharpening. Need I go on?

My solution would be the stone along the side of the teeth if the set is not extreme. If extreme, lightly joint, re-shape and sharpen. As Ian said, you may well remove some of that set with the jointing/sharpening process anyway. Running a stone along the side of the teeth as the final operation will also correct any teeth that have been slightly over set. I sometimes use a small, smooth file for this purpose. Your diamond plates should work fine, although I have never tried that.

One more comment in filing is that the file should not be forced. Gentle stokes are the order of the day particularly with the very first stroke on the tooth. This is because there may be a sharp edge. Tools with teeth need four to six teeth in contact with the material if they are to operate smoothly and not to run the risk of damage. The corners of the file, as has already been stated, are particularly vulnerable and a saw plate is thin. Tapered saw files are fragile, unfortunately.

Regards
Paul

Righteo, thanks Paul

That's something I don't want to end up with - a toothless wonder! I'll definitely do the light joint, re-shape and sharpen first. Hopefully that will be enough. Otherwise I should have ordered a few sets of files...lol...no thanks!

And thanks for the tip on not forcing the file. I'll be sure to take it gently and hopefully prolong the life of the file.

Thanks again, Paul. As always, very much appreciated

Regards Adam

Good afternoon gentlemen.

Still waiting for the files to arrive. I hoped they'd be here by the weekend but alas...

However, I've finished the handle now and applied some beeswax /carnauba wax. The Gilly's cabinet maker's version which I found at the hardware store. Seemed to be OK from the brief research I did. Used 0000 steel wool as suggested and it was easy to buff after. Screws polished etc.

You were right, Ian and Paul, about the tactile feel. It's really nice in the hand. I'm extremely happy with how it turned out.

I'll post some more photos after I've sharpened etc.
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Regards Adam

Well that is looking spectacular Adam.
I might have to try the wax on my next saw if I can figure out which one to do next.

Cheers Matt,

Adam

I think that handle looks better than when it left the factory apart from the hole, which you may be able to pass off as being drilled for lightness. Well done.

The restoration process with sanding has softened the curves or at least the transition from curve to flat and in that regard replicates the earlier saws, which generally are more sought after. I think you are fortunate with the timber on that handle as it has a little more character than is normally associated with Apple wood. Apple can be bland, but was favoured because of it's stability and particularly it's workability. In the early years of American saw making it was clearly plentiful, but post WW2, supplies were increasingly scare and it was used less and less.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Matt

Thanks Paul

I like the grain now that I can see it a bit better I didn't really notice it so much with the cracked finish originally.
Very glad I used the wax, thank you again for the advice.

Shame about the Apple wood these days then, as I really can appreciate its use as a saw handle.

Regards Adam