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30th May 2019, 03:03 PM #16
Ian
Too much pitting? How's this?
P1050048 (Medium).JPGP1050049 (Medium).JPGP1050050 (Medium).JPG
I couldn't remove where somebody had pin punched it.
P1050053 (Medium).JPG
I had also meant to add that both ferrules are mild steel pipe. Just what I had to hand and as I mentioned before this is a real knockabout chisel.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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30th May 2019, 06:48 PM #17
Very pretty, Paul. I wasn't casting aspersions on your Titan, just commenting on the variability of how we find 'em. It looked like the top was deeply pitted in your first pic, possibly because you'd photographed it in slanting light? Now that you've glammed it up, it looks good enough to grace my drawer full of Titans - except it's a tanged version & I like socket versions...
Cheers,IW
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30th May 2019, 07:05 PM #18
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1st June 2019, 09:57 PM #19
It's the meandering nature of the forum that is its strength.
My hand just fits in a 120mm handle (measured between ferrules), and most bench set handles are sized are 100 - 110 mm. So for my bench chisels I have the bottom 1or 2 fingers outside the handle. From thumb pad to palm heel, this pic measures 170mm, on a 40mm diameter handle. Different times, different diets and I do have large hands. Maybe I just need to adapt to handles that fit my hand, and not care about the metal looking or feeling short?
An old chisel with 110mm if metal left is a rare one, so how does that affect handle length? ??
Handles will probably be spotty gum, great properties and readily available (stair risers) in the size I need, which it 40mm diameter for the largest handles.
A really interesting point (for me, anyway) is the internal shape of the ferrules. It should produce a wedging force, imo.
Please feel free to keep interacting, I'm adding it all to the thinking pile.
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1st June 2019, 10:15 PM #20
Apologies for the rubbish photo. Left is very early Ward socketed handle, middle is pinned top ferrule, right is mystery chisel with a leather washer in place of the top ferrule. Each would have it's quirks and 'best practice'. I think that I need to decide on 2 lengths, and fiddle around from there... Guess the benefit is doing the turning course and walking away to be safe and switched in enough to front up to the lathe at the local men's shed
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2nd June 2019, 11:00 AM #21
Welcome back Clinton, not long returned myself.
Like others they are for you make one for the middle size and adjust length width as required for smaller & larger. What timbers you using? Jump at Pats offer, no gjood coming to my place unless you can bring sharp object's on a plane [emoji16]
Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
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2nd June 2019, 04:03 PM #22
Hey wheeling! I'm thinking that I'll hold Pat's offer till after the course. I reckon that would 'dovetail' 😁 nicely. Hello Pat, see you August?
There have been great considerations raised so far.
I'd like to read more if people's thoughts in how to do the top ferrule, and should the bottom one be done the same.
Here is a 110mm handle on a Eskilstuna. My hand literally takes up 130mm. Top ferrule us pinned, twice, and the handle is proud of the ferrule by 5mm, and it's well used and dog-eared.
Early Ward socketed mortice chisels have a turned socket for the top ferrule, and then there is a groove turned down into the handle the shape of the ferrule, good examples show a very crisp and deliberate turning. The ferrule is just wider than 2mm on its bottom, but the inside wall is usually bevelled off about, extending 4-5mn up the internal wall. The top of the ferrule is 'always' mushroomed over in bother the outside and the inside, heavier mushrooming in the outside. You can see and feel the mushrooming. These ferrules self tighten, in the same manner an axe moves when you tap an axe on the handle end. From my experience. I don't believe that 'stamping' (hitting the chisel with a Mallett) accounts for the turned inlet for the bottom of the ferrule, nor do I think that the amount of peening on the top of the ferrule us a natural occurrence of striking these handles with a mallet. ?
To me, the ferrule is not just a piece cut off a length of pipe. ?
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2nd June 2019, 04:19 PM #23
Wheelin', sharp objects on planes is kinda my speciality!
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2nd June 2019, 05:08 PM #24
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2nd June 2019, 05:17 PM #25
Ferals oops thats the last reply. I mean Ferrules If possible I put steel on the top takes more of a beating tight of a fit as possible, no pin as this I've learnt over the years when being hit chews up timber internally. The ones I've used which have been pin punched both sides last longer. Heated furrels then fitted which would be tight fit if not heated seem to last the best. This is all good unless timber is really abused on all types and shrinkage takes place.
I'm yet to re-do all my own and a few I got off Pat and scores from markets I am considering making up an cap end out of either brass or steel so mushrooming doesn't happen bit like a through tang.?????
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3rd June 2019, 09:31 AM #26
Sounds like you want to re-invent the Stanley 'Steel-cap', Ray, but do you really need bomb-proof handles?
Ferrules on tanged chisels are probably essential items, but about 10 years or more back, I decided top hoops weren't necessary on chisels that get used for 'lighter' work like dovetailing (and certainly not on paring chisels) provided they are only struck with wooden mallets. I re-handled my set of BE LNs with She-oak (only because I thought the Hornbeam they come with was just too bland), and they've since taken a lot of mallet-taps without showing any sign of stress. I am a little bit surprised they've stood up so well, in fact, because She-oak is inclined to be a bit splitty, but it's very tough in compression, & so far nothing untoward has happened. I'm confidently expecting them to see me out.
Top hoops can be a pita unless you set them well, as you've discovered, (see discussion earlier in the thread), so if they aren't really necessary, why not just dispense with them altogether ?
The chippies of my dad's generation used chisels all the time for hardwood framing, and it was a very hard life for their chisels. The blokes I knew didn't bother carting around sissy wooden mallets, they clobbered their chisels with the sides of their claw-hammers. Hardly surprising that some of the chisels I inherited had their hoops driven halfway down the handle! I must admit, the short, sharp whack of a lump of steel transfers the maximum amount of energy into a chisel in a satisfying way, and Japanese craftsmen have been doing it that way for a very long time, but a good mallet of the right size & weight can do almost as well once you adapt your striking style, and the handles last a very much longer time.
Just my 2c...
Cheers,IW
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22nd August 2019, 04:21 PM #27
Hey all. I'm thinking of making new ferrules for my new handles. The brass pipe stock I can find is 25.4mm, wall thickness 1.63mm, hard drawn. I'd prefer a larger wall thickness, but can not find it. Do you think that this stock is suitable? What did you use for the forum chisels. I guess I can always make up a jig and peen the top of the ferrule to a greater wall thickness? Or is the 1.63mm walk thickness good enough? I got delayed on my woodturning course thru Trend Timbers, but the October class is looking like the one I'll do. I'm wanting to source all the stock sooner rather than later, so I can hopefully knock out all the new handles over the 2 day course. As always,vyour advice and thoughts will be gratefully received.
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22nd August 2019, 04:27 PM #28
Bushmiller, do you know what brass stock was used for the ferrules in that photo you posted?
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22nd August 2019, 06:47 PM #29
I think 1.6mm would be fine for that diameter ferrule, Clinton, you can get thicker tubing, but it's not readily available where I get my brass. Is there a brass & non-ferrous metals merchant near you? They stock brass tubing in a varietyy of diameters & wall thicknesses. I bought a selection of 400mm lengths of various sizes & thicknesses about 10 years ago & I'm still working my way through them!
Cheers,IW
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22nd August 2019, 08:02 PM #30SENIOR MEMBER
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I’m glad this thread came up again. I started fiddling with some chisels I was given (part of a whole box of stuff that used to belong to a friend’s brother), and was trying to find the ‘correct’ pattern for a Ward that had just a ferrule and no handle. My new rule is to fix the handle before sharpening the blade, and now that the stitches are coming out, I’ll make a (more careful) start on the handle, but quite probably won’t bother trying to make it look like a Ward. I don’t have the right timber lying around anyway so even if I copy the shape perfectly it’ll still be different.
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