Thread: CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

I’ve been aware of that saying for many, many years and I’ve always thought it was crap as some of the people I’ve learnt the most from were great teachers which fantastic skills.

The problem is I’ve only heard that saying uttered by people who couldn’t be bothered passing skills or knowledge on or didn’t have the skills to do so.

I've heard the saying "if you can't do, teach" many times, often used to describe trade school teachers. However, I post to Youtube, Facebook and the forums, and I know I can't do. That's why I'm a fan of the saying "fake it till you make it!"

Originally Posted by Greg Ward

To all the armchair critics regarding testing and virus management.
Test kits don't just come from thin air, so early testing was only possible and is still only possible with what is around to use. Testing here as well as overseas was aimed at those with potential exposure or symptoms as there were insufficient swabs AND testing paraphernalia etc. to carry out more expansive testing. This is still the case.
It is easy to criticise lack of testing but governments can only use what they have.
This virus was not expected, so it takes time for all PE gear, masks, ventilators to be produced and sourced.

I'm not so easy on the authorities especially regarding PPE.
The last practice for the pandemic was 2008 - they knew it was coming sooner or later - too distracted by GFC and political bickering.
Critical stockpiles? all let run down or let go out of date.
We're lucky we've got to where we are.

Originally Posted by Lappa

The problem is I’ve only heard that saying uttered by people who couldn’t be bothered passing skills or knowledge on or didn’t have the skills to do so.

Well now you have heard it from me. Some of my best memories of my Army career were when I was instructing in Army or Joint Service schools or with Australian Army Training Teams working overseas in other countries training their military.

Teaching is very rewarding.

This one was a couple of years before my start date.
Must say I'd never heard of it before.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/18/china...ntl/index.html

Originally Posted by doug3030

I am looking forward to the end of the bushfires, climate change debate and coronavirus outbreak in the simple hope that this forum can go back to the friendly and helpful place it used to be, if it ever does.

C'mon Doug, if that ever happened what would all these old codgers do all day? "Debating" these issues gives most of them a reason to get up in the morning. The secret is not to take it too seriously ) As many have said, it won't make an iota of difference.

Paul - I have also been watching the stats from Norway and comparing them to Germany and the UK. Putting aside Bob's misgivings (for good reasons) about the validity of the stats, there are some similar inferences that can be drawn from Norway.

They have had the highest testing rate per capita of any large country at 26,224/m, with a case load of 1,310/m, but a death rate of only 30/m. That's better than Germany with a testing rate of 20,629/m, a case load of 1,739/m and death rate of 55/m. And, the UK with a testing rate of only 7,101/m, case load of 1,769/m, and a death rate of 237/m.

Besides their high testing rate, Norway also went early and hard with its restrictions. Their excellent health system may also be another factor in their better performance.

And, of course, NZ is an even a more outstanding performer with a testing rate of 17,897/m, a case load of 299/m and just 2/m deaths. NZ and Norway share similar distributions of their populations that may have contributed to their similar success.

False negatives aside, much like NZ, I'm more confident with the stats out of Norway than many other countries.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Paul - I have also been watching the stats from Norway and comparing them to Germany and the UK.

Does anyone really care?

Originally Posted by Tccp123

Does anyone really care?

Apparently not...

Originally Posted by Tccp123

Does anyone really care?

Of course there are people who care about the stats in Norway, Germany and the UK.

The real question is if anyone cares that some bloke in lockdown in the Adelaide Hills with no ability to influence the outcome, is comparing them.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Paul - I have also been watching the stats from Norway and comparing them to Germany and the UK. Putting aside Bob's misgivings (for good reasons) about the validity of the stats, there are some similar inferences that can be drawn from Norway.

They have had the highest testing rate per capita of any large country at 26,224/m, with a case load of 1,310/m, but a death rate of only 30/m. That's better than Germany with a testing rate of 20,629/m, a case load of 1,739/m and death rate of 55/m. And, the UK with a testing rate of only 7,101/m, case load of 1,769/m, and a death rate of 237/m.

Besides their high testing rate, Norway also went early and hard with its restrictions. Their excellent health system may also be another factor in their better performance.

And, of course, NZ is an even a more outstanding performer with a testing rate of 17,897/m, a case load of 299/m and just 2/m deaths. NZ and Norway share similar distributions of their populations that may have contributed to their similar success.

False negatives aside, much like NZ, I'm more confident with the stats out of Norway than many other countries.

Thanks Neil

I looked up the cases for Norway and it was 7108 with 165 deaths. (Good old Oz is doing pretty well compared to almost everybody).

Who cares about a small Scandinavian country with only 5,367,580 people? Probably at least 5,367,580 Norwegians for starters and one Australian ex-pat from Millmerran and his Czechian girlfriend. Actually there are two more Australians in Millmerran who care quite a bit about their son. Luckily he is in the very far North, Just a few kilometers away from the Russian border. They went for a snowmobile ride over Easter to the border area much in the same way Aussies in better times go for a picnic.

Who cares? Aaaaargh.

"Never send to know for whom the bell tolls. it tolls for thee."

Regards
Paul

Well on an upside I think it is fair to say our authorities have done a great job in minimising the viral impact on Australian soil. Their tactics have proven to have been the right course to date.

How we move forward from here will be interesting

Originally Posted by BobL

I'm not so easy on the authorities especially regarding PPE.
The last practice for the pandemic was 2008 - they knew it was coming sooner or later - too distracted by GFC and political bickering.
Critical stockpiles? all let run down or let go out of date.
We're lucky we've got to where we are.

I'm not a fan of politicians of any stripe but I'll give credit where it's due. This one came right out of the blue. Sure, with the clarity of hindsight we should have been better prepared. SE Asia had recent experience with SARS and recognised the potential earlier but it hardly touched Oz. Asians have been wearing face masks for yonks, way before this crisis. I always thought it was slightly peculiar.

The national cabinet has done a terrific job as has most of our population listening to the experts and doing exactly what they recommend. And we're winning hands down. The balance between peoples lives and their livelihood is a terrible responsibility. How much better off we would be if they tackled the other threats facing us with the same urgency and vigour? I guess the consequences have to be shoved in their faces before they realise they have to act.

Fear is a great motivator.

mick

p.s. I'll be in the shed if you want me.

Originally Posted by Glider

The national cabinet has done a terrific job as has most of our population listening to the experts and doing exactly what they recommend. And we're winning hands down. The balance between peoples lives and their livelihood is a terrible responsibility. How much better off we would be if they tackled the other threats facing us with the same urgency and vigour? I guess the consequences have to be shoved in their faces before they realise they have to act.

Fear is a great motivator.

mick

p.s. I'll be in the shed if you want me.

When people start to talk about the constraints of the lockdown and the economic consequences my reaction is to point to other countries and ask if we would like to be in their position? America, UK, Germany, etc ( I was going to list them, but there are too many).

As Beardy said:

"How we move forward from here will be interesting."

Too much too soon and we will be back to square one.

Regards
Paul