Thread: Challenge 20 - 21. Ironwood.

Film is still available from a few retailers, I think your bigger issue will be locating a supplier for flash powder

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Bl@@dy hell!

Not only is that photography enough to make me reluctant to ever post a picture again ((I have been thinking of trading in the Brownie 127 for a later model: Is there a 128?), but everybody else has already commented so I can't even get a scoop there!

The plane is going to be superb and let me know if you need any photographic tips. My best shot at this is "remember to put the film in":

What? We don't use film any more!



Regards
Paul

The last thing I want to do is discourage anyone from posting
I still have a Box Brownie in the cupboard, maybe I should use that

I have spent the morning looking for accessible pieces of Ironwood that I can use, I really dont want to start dismantling stacks so I am trying to use offcuts from past projects.
Having trouble getting a colour match , the pieces of 60x65mm that are already cut have an orange tinge to them, all the slab offcuts are more of a darker brown with a maroon tinge.
I did find a 1.5 meter length of 60x60, it looks like it has been rolled in the mud at some stage, so I havent done much with it yet except cut a slice off one end. I will have to wire brush it before I can look at the long grain.

I put this piece through the thicknesser, took it down to 25mm , which is what I think I will go with for the thickness of the handle.
Its crown-cut, and has plenty of the characteristic white strands.
DSC_1624.jpg

This is one of the 60x65 pieces, as you can see, its not a real good match.
The next photo shows the endgrain, in the 1st pic you are looking at the face thats on the left in the 2nd pic.
DSC_1626.jpg

DSC_1634.jpg

This is a slice off the end of the muddy piece. I might just hit one side on the belt sander to see if I should go any further with it.
This end has a bit of sapwood on one side, but the other end is clear.
DSC_1627.jpg

Ok, I just remembered where that muddy piece came from. I am almost certain its the offcut from the cross-brace that goes between the legs on my Ironwood verandah table.
You cant really see the end grain in the photo with the light reflecting off it, but its the same orientation as the slice I showed in the last pic in my last post.
I think it will be a better colour match to my handle piece if thats the case.
DSC_1636.jpg

Looks like the muddy stick will be a pretty good match to the piece of slab I want to use for the handle, the first piece I cut off the end had a crack on the side about 10mm deep.
I decided I would use it for a practice piece. I drilled a hole with a spade bit to match the curve in the mouth, and freehanded everything else on the bandsaw. I took too much off on the inside edges, so I have a few gaps, I will be a lot more careful when cutting out the next one. I found it pares pretty easily with a sharp chisel, So I can sneak up on the fit instead of going hard and fast.
Almost happy with the shape, with a bit of refining it should be better.

DSC_1638.jpg

I made a mock-up of the handle with a bit of scrap Carbeen, it looks a bit ugly, definitely need to make some changes.
I think the top of the handle needs to be a bit lower. Its a 4 finger handle atm, I am wondering if it will be OK to make it a 3 finger handle and have your forefinger running on the outside up to the blade.
If I go with 3 fingers, I can lower the top a fair bit.
I think I will do a bit of looking at other examples of planes , to get a feeling of how to make it better, before I go any further.
Suggestions and critique are more than welcome.
DSC_1641.jpg

I put it on the scales, it came in at 1.69kg. Still have to add the brass levercap and a bit more timber in the back, so probably be nudging 2kg.
DSC_1642.jpg

That’s looking pretty damn good Brad!

Some thoughts on the handle; I think a 3-finger grip is preferable. I recall reading somewhere that no plane should be used with a 4-finger grip; better control is afforded by extending the forefinger. I also think you may need to lift the angle a smidge higher? A low angle is good when you need to “press” the plane into the timber but the 2kg mass of yours shouldn’t need that!

Again though; well done, it’s going to look great!

I quite like it.

I think for a smoother you probably do not need a 4 finger grip and 3 fingers is fully ok
But then it is easier to still have the 4th finger riding on the side on a 4 finger handle than trying to squeeze a 4th finger into a 3 finger handle.

Just a thought.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Brad

I am a little biased with the three/four finger debate from my dallying with handsaws where the adoption through time of a monstrously large hand hole developed. So I would go with the three fingers, but in truth it is whatever feels comfortable for you.

However, I would point to that top horn and suggest that you have made it too thin by a factor of at least two and possibly more. My reasoning here is that the handle will have significant rounding to suit a comfortable hand grip and that shape will be blended into the top horn. Once the horn itself is rounded it will appear much slimmer but still retain it's strength. Also if you feel it should be slimmer you can do that easily with a rasp: Not possible to bulk the horn up if you start off too slim.

Hand saw top horn.jpg

I have to stress that I am not speaking from any experience with plane handles, but I have made up a few saw handles. Normally I have replicated old designs and I recall that to achieve the "refinement" I was seeking my first attempts were much too thin.

Of course the hang angle may well be different to a saw but that will become evident in your mock up, if you have got it wrong. You will probably find that the angle of the horn should not tilt down as much as it does on a hand saw. It is something I will have to look out for when I get to my entry.

Regards
Paul

I can't offer any advice as I have no experience with such tools - but I can say it is looking great. The ironwood has a different colour than the purpleheart, but looks very similar on the end grain.
IMG_0099.JPG

Hi Brad. Wow! The Ironwood is making it pop. For what it's worth I think you need a bit more meat at the top of the finger cut out and this may help flatten out the curve of the horn. Looks great!!!!

Brad, I second Paul on the thinness of the top horn, for the same reasons, but aesthetics is in the eye & mind of the beholder. I would shape the mockup, that's usually pretty revealing, and shows you where you need to think about any modifications. It only takes a few minutes to rasp out the general shape, no need to go for a fine finish!

If you decide you are going to stick with the top horn like it is, may I suggest you rotate the template on the final version, to get as much long grain running along the horn as you can. The way it's cut atm, the grain appears to be at its shortest right in the middle of the horn - that will be very flimsy & is likely to cause tears in the very near future....

The 3-finger/4 finger/however-many-finger grip debate has raged on & off in various forums. As far as I know, there is no anatomic, neurologic or physiologic basis to the claims that one way or the other gives any superior spatial awareness or mechanical advantage. My take is that whatever you are accustomed to & feel comfortable with is what works best for you. I do adopt a 3-finger grip with saws & most planes, because that's how I saw my father using them. It certainly becomes a fixed habit, to the extent that I feel quite uncomfortable with the couple of Veritas planes I own. Apart from the crudely-shaped, sticks they call handles being too vertical for my way of working, there's nothing for my index finger to sit against, which feels weird.

Paul, I read somewhere years ago that the shift to very large finger holes in saw handles was for the benefit of the blokes who have to work in sub-arctic conditions up there in the northern part of the planet, so they can get gloved fingers through. Doesn't do much for bare-fingered hands in proper climates though....

Cheers,

PS: I've used Ironwood (the "Cooktown" variety, Erythrophloeum sp. to be specific, there are a few other woods that get called "Ironwood") a couple of times. Not the best wood to work with for fine fitting in a plane body if you are "over-stuffing", but it certainly finishes superbly, and gets smoother & silkier with use....

Brad,
It’s looking excellent,love the curves.
As others have said, I think a three finger grip would work.
Have you already I put your Lever cap pin in place.?

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, I read somewhere years ago that the shift to very large finger holes in saw handles was for the benefit of the blokes who have to work in sub-arctic conditions up there in the northern part of the planet, so they can get gloved fingers through. Doesn't do much for bare-fingered hands in proper climates though....

Cheers,

Ian

That was my understanding for the larger saws and those used for rough cutting. There are references in the manufacturers catalogues that refer to the easy use of a gloved hand. The three fingered hold allows the index finger to control the saw slightly better to my mind. Now whether this is equally appropriate for a hand plane I don't know.

Regards
Paul

Well, I have spent a few hours looking at other examples on the net, and taking into consideration everyone’s thoughts and advice, I have got a new version of the handle in my head.
Hopefully I will get time this afternoon to knock up another one out of more scrap.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Have you already I put your Lever cap pin in place.?

Cheers Matt.

Yeah mate, it got put in at the same time as the sides went on, and peened straight after I finished peening the dovetails. It’s a 1/4” rod and I turned 4mm steps on the ends, so it had to go in while the sides were still loose.