Thread: [WIP] Chisels, so many chisels - and questions about restoration

Originally Posted by IanW

Bushmiller gave me a wheel to try (for an angle-grinder). They have a soft texture, but sure rip off rust & leave a clean surface without removing sound steel (or very little). I think they'd do a very good job cleaning the tops of your chisels around the bolsters, but I would be careful not to hit the lower edges of the blade as they would duff sharp corners.

I forgot where he told me he got them, but maybe he'll see your post & respond. If not I'll stir him up 'cos I want to get a couple more myself - I found it handier than I expected...

Cheers,

Ian

I had started to read this thread and got distracted so I did not get to your reference. (Thanks for the email heads up).

These wheels are referred to as "fibre", probably more specifically "nylon fibre wheels" wheels and probably fit a slot between a flap disc and a polishing cloth.


Originally I acquired them for my bench grinder (NCArcher first acquainted me with this product some years ago when he gave me a wheel)

P1070313 (Medium).JPG

More recently I needed to get into an object where the bulk of the grinder body got in the way so I procured some similar wheels for an angle grinder and it is this type that Ian has. I bought them as a pack of ten.

P1070312 (Medium).JPG

I tend to use them for what I would call a clean up rather than de-rusting, which if severe, needs something more aggressive. They will also remove light sanding marks. This is the end of a plane body that had marks in it from shaping

P1070314 (Medium).JPG

This is after less than a minute on the bench grinder wheel. (No good for timber though as it burns)

P1070316 (Medium).JPGP1070315 (Medium).JPG

This pic demonstrates the removal of light surface rust on an old thicknesser blade. That was about three passes and less than 30 seconds.

P1070322 (Medium).JPG

These wheels tend to be expensive if bought at hardware stores, but are much cheaper through the net. I am afraid you will probably have to go down the China path unless you are comfortable sacrificing body parts.

This is the seller I bought from for the 100mm angle grinder wheels, but please do your own searching:

4 Inch Nylon Fiber Polishing Buffing Wheel Pad Disc For Angle Grinder 5/10/20Pcs | eBay

This is just the first listing I found for a 200mm wheel. It is 5p rated. I would look for 7p or 9p. Some sellers quote grits (180g for example) but I don't know the correlation between the two.

150MM-300MM Nylon Fiber Grinding Polishing Buffing Wheel Abrasive Rotary Tool | eBay

These wheels can be used as the primary step in polishing steel and non-ferrous metals too. As you have mentioned they do not noticeably remove metal. I hope that helps.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by D.W.

if a buffing compound can clean a surface and remove scratches, it'll round over edges quickly.

That was unfortunately my thought as well. I don't have a linisher or belt grinder and I'd rather not slap any of these onto a belt sander so it looks like it'll be either the soft wheels IanW mentioned or the old handy hands and some high grit sandpaper.

Edit: Many thanks for your reply Bushmiller. I will give a nylon wheel a go for sure.

Alkahestic

Just a small demo as this rusty framing square has been offending me for some time now (years!!)

P1070408 (Medium).JPG

I used my very expensive kitchen timer to see just how long the process would take. I worked on one side and then realised I had pressed the wrong button! The second side took 1m 55s so I am assuming the first side was very similar.

P1070409 (Medium).JPGP1070410 (Medium).JPG

This was with the 4" grinder and a very worn wheel.

P1070411 (Medium).JPGP1070412 (Medium).JPGP1070413 (Medium).JPG

Regards
Paul

Bushmiller, thanks for the links and the photos. I'm currently waiting on delivery of a couple of different types of the nylon wheels. From what I've read so far, the 5P/7P/9P/12P refers to the softness of the wheel, with lower numbers being softer and less durable and the grit rating works in the usual way. As you say the Scotchbrite wheels are eye wateringly expensive. Apparently they don't deform or something or the other so can be used to smooth and blend on components requiring extremely tight tolerances - like turbine blades. Not having the need for such exactness or the willingness to part with a few hundred dollars for them, I too have opted for the Asian knock off variety.

Originally Posted by Alkahestic

Bushmiller, thanks for the links and the photos. I'm currently waiting on delivery of a couple of different types of the nylon wheels. From what I've read so far, the 5P/7P/9P/12P refers to the softness of the wheel, with lower numbers being softer and less durable and the grit rating works in the usual way. As you say the Scotchbrite wheels are eye wateringly expensive. Apparently they don't deform or something or the other so can be used to smooth and blend on components requiring extremely tight tolerances - like turbine blades. Not having the need for such exactness or the willingness to part with a few hundred dollars for them, I too have opted for the Asian knock off variety.

Alkahestic

The recognisable brand name products are superior. No question about that, but value for money the knock offs are very passable. Go for the more dense products. 7p or 9p. I have not seen the 12p, but would like to try it. I will have to do some more research as I like the sound of that.

I guess much depends on the intended purpose and of course the budget. On durability again it depends what you are working with. I use the wheels on the bench grinder for cleaning brass (and steel) hand saw screws. Excluding the medallion, which I have to clean a different way, it takes no more than two minutes and I don't think I would ever have to replace the wheels as the process is very gentle. If you are deburring high carbon steel the wheels will gradually be worn away.

Regards
Paul

Hi Bushmiller,

I have been restoring some hand saws lately and a part of your post piqued my interest.

How do you clean up the medallion?

I usually put the screws and nuts in vice grips and rub them with coarse then fine steel wool (doesn't take long and prevents small pieces going flying from trying on wheel. You can also clean up parts of the medialliion but not the recessed areas which stay tarnished/grotty.

I have been considering using a dremel but not sure which attachment woudl be best (just a little cotton mop?), and how to avoid damage.

Chris

I think you're better off doing fairly little in the etch so that it stays crisp, and if you want, you can introduce something to blacken the bottom of the etch (like a bluing compound) and then clean the flat surface above.

I didn't mention deburring wheels above as I do use a 2xs or XF (not sure what it's called) 3m deburring wheel. I suppose there may be versions of those wheels that are extra hard, but every time I've ever used them to clean rust, they do round over the corners a fair amount and make an entire surface look like it's been smudged (so all of the scratches look like they did before except they're blurry looking for lack of a better way to put it).

If the amount of metal to be cleaned up is fairly minimal, a hard block and wet and dry or psa stick-on paper (wet and dry if you want to use a fluid like WD40, which is a good idea) is going to do a lot better to remove only a small amount but leave all edges crisp.

As mentioned above, a contact wheel (which is hard rubber) works well, but that kind of thing is out of the question cost-wise for minimal use because you have the contact wheel, the assembly behind it (probably a platen flat somewhere on a belt), something driving it and then a bunch of abrasive belts.

The benefit of a contact wheel and power, though, is that even relatively fine grit can remove some metal and you can end up with a surface like I pictured above on a shop made 1095 chisel.

But I'd put on some bluetooth headphones on tools intended to stay nice and hand finish them with wet and dry and some kind of wet fluid. wet and dry needs to be a decent quality paper (not just chinese paper off of ebay that's 220, etc, as that stuff will have a wide variety of particle sizes and you'll be chasing deep scratches even from the fine paper. I learned this the hard way buying an assortment of paper to repaint a car hood).

Originally Posted by Cgcc

Hi Bushmiller,

I have been restoring some hand saws lately and a part of your post piqued my interest.

How do you clean up the medallion?

I usually put the screws and nuts in vice grips and rub them with coarse then fine steel wool (doesn't take long and prevents small pieces going flying from trying on wheel. You can also clean up parts of the medialliion but not the recessed areas which stay tarnished/grotty.

I have been considering using a dremel but not sure which attachment woudl be best (just a little cotton mop?), and how to avoid damage.

Chris

Chris

The medallions are a little tricky. The rim can be cleaned on the fibre wheel. The centre has to be cleaned the old fashioned way with some sort of polish. There is no easy way that I have found yet. In the past I have used Brasso or Duraglit, but now I use Metal Magic.

Metal Polish (rubbedinpro.com.au)

The better the definition of the medallion, the longer the clean up takes.

Regards
Paul

I have not tried it on an actual saw medallion but this wheel I recently purchased is proving very effective cleaning up similar things.
It' apparently used by jewellers for initial polishing of relatively soft metals .
The really beauty of this wheel is on harder metals like steel and brass it will remove surface oxides etc without removing any metal.
I purchased this as a "carding brush" to remove the black oxide soot that occurs during the cold fume metal bluing process.
It has about the same effect as using 0000 steel wool so its no good on medium to heavy rust etc.

Cardingwheel.jpg
The 150 mm diameter wheel uses a very fine SS wire (bristles are 0.06mm thick)
I use it as shown on my lathe because I can then run it at variable speeds.

The wire is so soft that I can hold my fingers against it for about 10s at 2000 rpm. That way I can hold very small objects right up against the wire. It's brilliant for fine threads and complex shaped objects as the long wires can get into deep crevices.

Even though it only has a wooden hub it can run up to 3500 RPM but I usually run it slower so I can use my fingers close to teh wheel.

Caswells (Australia) had them for sale but I see they no longer show them on their website. They did not keep them in stock anyway and had to order them in from the US so I ordered mine direct from the US.
GROBET FILE CO. OF AMERICA INC .0025" STAINLESS STEEL BRUSHING WHEELS | Brownells
The wheels are relatively cheap it's the freight that's a bit of a killer but they should last a long time.

I know I'm a bit late to the party...

I would recommend *not* polishing and shining up old octagon bolster chisels. Most of them came brown/black from the factory, and was a sign of proper heat treatment. Remember, the old British chisels that don't say "Sheffield, England" on them were made before 1881. The ones that only say "Cast steel" could well be 150 years old.

Flatten the backs, knock off any rust, hone them up, clean/oil and use them. They make fine workers.

I'm a "user,". It's a major warning sign when I see a highly polished antique chisel. Somebody has messed with it, and possibly ruined it.

The newer ones - sure, do whatever you want to them.