Thread: My new/old tenon saws

They look amazing. I think the aged wood look also fits to the vintage look of the blades. They look like they have been like this for a while and well looked after. I love it.

What is the thickness of the reused saw plates if you don't mind asking?

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Looks great, MA! The new handles are very nicely done.

Do you mind sharing the ingredients of your 3 in 1 recipe and shop paste wax?

They look great MA, well done!

Hi CK, AB and CT. Thank you all. I will check but I did measure and I think 0.9 (tenon) and 0.7 (dovetail). They are probably a little thick, they were originally panel saw blades. 3 in 1 recipe is made up of equal parts BLO, pure turpentine oil and whatever oil based clear I have on hand (usually Cabots). Recipe taken from a Garrett Hack article in FWW magazine and wiped on with a rag, left to soak in and lightly buffed off if needed. Paste wax recipe from Wood by Wright (on YouTube). Can't remember ratios (even though I only made it during Covid lockdown) but easy enough to find. He made 3 versions. Mine is the one meant to rub in and buff off and is just beeswax and BLO. It leaves the wood feeling lovely to hold and smelt great when I first made it. Now the smell is less . I cleaned the blades up with sandpaper and WD40 and went up to 1200grit but I am happy with the remaining patina. As long as they cut well (and look nice, and feel good in my hand, and.......)

"As long as they cut well (and look nice, and feel good in my hand, and.......)"


That's all what matters!

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You are progressing at an amazing rate MA! I reckon before the year is out you'll be the new man to go to for saw-making advice. I think you've got handles nailed, the next challenge is putting a little bit of detail on those spines, like a bit of rounding of the top and a light chamfer along the bottom edges. Some weirdo I know even puts little decorative lambs' tongues on the edge, for no good reason I can fathom.
Spine chamfers.jpg

More seriously, I suspect some of the trouble you are having with setting your finer teeth may be due to the thickness of the plate. Your D/T saw is close to 30 thou thick (0.02755 to be exact) which imo is too thick for the typical 14/15 tpi of a D/T saw. My rule of thumb is to use plate no thicker than 20 thou (~.5mm) for 15 tpi and 25 thou (~.63mm) for 12 tpi. The problem is getting just the top half of small teeth to bend neatly & consistently on thicker plate (the 'rule' is that only the top 3rd is bent over, but that's awfully difficult to achieve with fine teeth, & I settle happily for around half).

It's had to find donor saws with plates thinner than about 25 thou, that was the thickness of all of the hardpoint "back" saws I measured in Bunnies a while back. The last pack of mixed shim stock I got through Amazon worked out at about $15 per blade, iirc. That was an average, I got 3 D/T blades from the 15 thou piece, & two each (75 x 300mm) from the 20, 25 & 30 thou sheets. I wish they'd offer packs of 2 or 3 sheets of the one size, the 5 & 10 thou sheets that come in the mixed pack are of very limited use to saw makers!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Thank again to IanW for the link he recently posted for the double extra slim 5" files from Gasweld. I bought 10 and was impressed with their staying power, although the first (and only one so far), did seem somewhat brittle.

MA

What was the brand as I know of somebody chasing DEST files? I should add that you have done an excellent job with those two saws and re-purposed something that otherwise was junk: I like that. The challenge now is find a source of thinner saw plate stock for the higher tooth count saws.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

...What was the brand as I know of somebody chasing DEST files?

These, Paul....

Thanks Ian

I wasn't sure which one of you would see the request first.

I have heard good reports of the Bacho files, but have only used the larger flat files myself so far. For some time I have believed that the Bacho files are made by Tome Fetiera. I did a little research, which was inconclusive but circumstantial. Bacho, while once a Swedish owned company is now owned, at least the saw and file section, by Snap On, the American company renowned for their mechanics tools.

The saw files are all stamped "Made in Portugal." The manufacturer, Tome Fetiera, is a renowned Portuguese file and rasp manufacturer. Any company that produces hand stitched rasps has to make you sit up straight and pay attention to my mind. So it looks as though there is a more than fair chance that Bacho's files are rebadged Tome Fetiera.

Regards
Paul

M,A


You are unfortunately a complete loss now, know helping you at all.
Once you drop to the level of making gorgeous tools.

There’s just no turning back.

Those saws have turned out amazingly well.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

.......The saw files are all stamped "Made in Portugal." The manufacturer, Tome Fetiera, is a renowned Portuguese file and rasp manufacturer. Any company that produces hand stitched rasps has to make you sit up straight and pay attention to my mind. So it looks as though there is a more than fair chance that Bacho's files are rebadged Tome Fetiera.

Paul, Bahco's files are made in Portugal, but whether it's by Tome Feteira or some other contractor, I have no idea, but it's a tiny country, so there can't be much room for too many file makers. I too have read glowing reports of T.F. files but my personal experience with the couple Brett got hold of & sent to me to test can best be summed up as "meh!" A T.F. needle file went about 1/10th the distance of a Grobet. I know one shouldn't judge from just two files, but if they do make better, their QC section needs a bit of waking up!

And just because a company does hand-stitched stuff doesn't mean their metal files will be super special. As part of the 'Great File Test' (now becoming very dated!), we tested a Liogier file. It was pretty good, so on the strength of that Brett got a few more - they were a little harder than mild steel, but not much. On querying the big boss, it turned out that Liogier freres were flat out stitching rasps & the files had been made by a sub-contractor. He did say they were having QC issues with the sub-contractor, which was an honest admission, but not likely to make one rush out & buy more.

So as it stands, I've been buying Bahcos for the last couple of years, I'd call the quality 'adequate' but certainly not up to Grobet standards, or the Nicholsons & Wiltshires of yore. They are also easy to buy at reasonable prices, so for now, they get my custom......

Cheers,

Ian

That's interesting and I certainly agree that even among the range there can be variation: Particularly distressing if you find the six inch files are good but the five inch are poor etc.. In fact I recall there was some of that tendency in the great saw file test.

My point regarding the hand stitched rasps perhaps should have gone along the lines of having the potential to make good files. When the group buy happened I bought some Logier chainsaw files. OK but nothing special.

The other thing is that much can change in even a year: The saw file test is now getting on for eight years old. Having said that, I don't approach my next birthday confident that all will be well in the field of hand saw files. I saw that Paul sellers had the same experience with modern Nicholsons as I did. The file I bought for $14 would not file from the first moment.

From the sound of it, Mountain Ash did not have too many problems with his saws as they have come up well ( and I would have recognised those brass backs anywhere.)

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

......From the sound of it, Mountain Ash did not have too many problems with his saws as they have come up well...

Yes, I'm relieved his files were ok, since I pointed him at them!

As I said, I think they're ok, maybe my memories of the Nicholsons of old are a bit rosy (nostalgia isn't what it used to be ), but the yardstick I use is how many sharpenings or how many teeth a file will cut. When toothing, I usually make two strokes per tooth on each pass. I've had files that died on all three corners before I got to the end of my first pass on a 10 inch, 12 tpi saw! Yet the same brand, same size, in a previous batch toothed an entire saw with a corner to spare. Go figure.....
Cheers,

Hi Ian, Paul and Matt. Thankyou all for your kind words. I have been feeling guilty that it has taken me this long to use Ian's brass but work has been flat out (and shows no sign of letting up - are you busy too Matt?). I bought some NOS wiltshire files from eBay and used one to shape and sharpen the tenon saw. Better than others but used at least 2 of the 3 corners. The Bahco's cut quick and it took me a little bit to realise that I had to be careful not to file off too much. But one corner felt as though it chipped as it would catch mid point of the stroke. Subsequent use seemed to smooth things out. I like your brass detailing Ian. Thanks too for the heads up regarding plate thickness. As mentioned, I ground down the plunger on my saw set but was a bit heavy on one side. Not wanting to make things worse (and in a hurry to finish) I left it to be dealt with later. On a side note I can't work out which I like best - making my own tools or restoring old ones. These saws probably combine both areas nicely.