Thread: Stanley Bailey No 4 1/2 identification

Right... I gave the tote an overnight bath in metho. Probably not the right thing to do but I am an amateur at this. I thought the metho best, rather than a paint stripper.
Came out not too bad. The break has some glue, not sure what. But the break lines up nicely. I can even see an owner's name on one side.
Rosewood???
If I carefully scrape the glue out is it repairable? Special glue?

I have bought another blade and chipbreaker set from a bloke up in Goodna. So waiting for them to arrive.

Ian, I have both those products, danish oil and shellawax. I'll give them a go.

This is the second broken tote.
Broken in almost identical spot.
Is that usual? Fall of a bench, tote take the hit..
This one doesn't appear to have been glued.
Repairable?
Photos are lighter than actual, they are quite dark.

Lyle, I think both totes are eminently repairable. A useful trick I learnt from someone some years ago is to get a length of all-thread about 30-40mm longer than the handle (1/4" will usually go through the stud hole, but if not, use 3/16" or 5mm). Shape a couple of thick wooden "washers" for the top & the bottom & you have a clamp that can pull the bits together very nicely (all you need is a wing-nut to apply plenty of pressure). I use epoxy glue for these sorts of jobs because epoxy is a good gap-filler & it's unlikely you'll get a perfect match of surfaces after cleaning up someone else's attempt, but try to get as much of that mankey old glue off as you can. But with a bit of care and accurate clamping you should get a barely visible join.

Yep, the breaks in your tote are exactly where I've seen them most often - around the middle of the grip. My theory is that they break because they have become loose, and either a hard knock or maybe even hitting a few hard knots during use puts enough force on the weak cross-grain to snap it. Keeping the stud tight maintains a compression force that would counteract this.

The typical "drop" injury is a broken horn (had that happen to me with both a plane & a saw ), but both your totes are in remarkably good shape in that respect...
Cheers,
Ian

PS: Take a look at the old handle I patched a few months ago (post #2) . The break was worse that either of yours, I thing the owner went on using it after the initial break & a goodly piece had chipped out either side. I managed to get it reasonably presentable (& certainly functional)...

That thread is excellent. Thanks for linking it up.
I've had an epiphany thought re repair. Could I secure the tote to a carrier and cut the break join through on a saw. Then I'd have a clean flat surface. If the tote is them too short (my sawtable kerf is only 3mm),I could put in a spacer (either similar or contrast).
Glue it with epoxy as your repair link suggests.

I wouldn’t try to cut out the damaged section unless it was the world’s cleanest break along the grain and I used the thinnest bandsaw blade available…

Try to identify the glue. I would guestimate it was repaired with PVA because it’s the most common and cheapest glue around. Poke around with a scriber, if it feels like hard rubber then it’s PVA. If it’s hard and crunchy it’ll be either epoxy or possibly hide glue. If it softens with heat and water it’s hide glue in which case the job just became amazingly simple… but epoxy would be more likely.

Scrub the break with a wire brush and use a scriber or other pointed tool to remove as much glue as possible.

As the Chief sez; I'd also recommend going for a straight glue repair first - nothing to lose. How good a join you get will depend on how much of that other goop you can pick/scrape off. I'd bet London to a brick that it's PVA from the look of it. If you'd soaked hide glue in metho it would have gone crazed & brittle, and epoxy wouldn't be affected at all. I think I've read somewhere that acetone will dissolve PVA, but not 100% sure of that (& be careful if you try it, the stuff is extremely volatile & extremely flammable! As long as you get a reasonably good glue bond, and keep the stud tight it should stand up to normal use, no probs.

I have resorted to splicing in pieces when the break was really bad, or pieces missing, there's not much choice in that situation, but I'd always try a straight glue-up first if it looks feasible. It's almost as much work splicing in a piece & re-shaping as making a whole new handle, and near impossible to get a match unless you happen to have some very aged rosewood in your stash. Here's an old tote I did some transplant surgery on, and even though I used the proper Rosewood, the spliced in bits are about 70 years younger than the original, so they stand out. Repaired R'wood tote.jpg

The additions have mellowed a bit since, but are still easily seen on close scrutiny. I do think it's worthwhile trying to resurrect those old pre-WW2 Rosewood handles 'cos they are so nicely shaped & the wood feesl so good in the hand....

Cheers,

Ok. Thanks. I'm gunna give em a go.
Epoxy, like araldite? Especially the slow set (24 hour)?
Leave it clear or try and colour it?

Originally Posted by Lyle

...Epoxy, like araldite? Especially the slow set (24 hour)? .....

Yes, Araldite or whichever brand you favour, and certainly the slow-set "high strength" variety.

Originally Posted by Lyle

...Leave it clear or try and colour it?...

Up to you; if you are a dab hand at colouring & have compatible pigments, it won't do any harm & should help disguise the join. However, if the joint is tight, you shouldn't see any glue. I usually don't bother, unless there is a gap I can't fully close, then I try mixing some fine sanding dust from a similar wood into the glue. I've rarely been satisfied with the results, it usually just looks like someone has tried to fill a gap with coloured glue (not very successfully )
Cheers,

So I got 99.9% of the glue off. Threaded rod and a wedge to pull it together.
I also put a sort bit of plastic drinking straw over the rod inside at the join line.
Still a gap. Do you reckon it'll be ok?

So I bit the bullet.
Glue line is better than I thought I'd get.
Wait until glue sets and see.

The straw is a good bit of lateral thinking! I cover the thread with wax to stop the glue sticking to it. I have a love/hate relationship with epoxy glues, they seem to be able to get all over the job, no matter how careful I am!

In the shots with the elastic bands, the gap looks a lot better, as if the rod isn't really pulling the parts together tightly on its own (it should), or are things wanting to twisting a bit when you tighten the rod? I don't think you are likely to get an invisible line with such an old break, I'd reckon how you've got it with the additional pull of the rubber bands is about what I'd expect. Wet araldite acts like a lubricant, and you may find when you apply it, the gap will close better than when the surfaces are dry. It can also make the parts slip out of alignment more easily if the clamping pressure isn't pulling perpendicular to the broken surfaces.

I think I'd be giving it a go at this stage. Wet araldite is easy to clean off with metho if things go pear-shaped & you need to re-assess the strategy....
Cheers,

Yep. The parts started to slide when the araldite was applied. The pressure with the rod was good. Even better with the couple of wedges to control the pressure. The rubber bands were to help control the slipping.
I agree with getting the epoxy everywhere!!!
I think I'm happy with the result so far.
Tomorrow will be the truth!! I'll have to be patient and not try out the joint too soon.

The repair worked very well.
Ive tried to keep as much patination as possible.
I've got both danish oil and shellawax.
Which would you advise?

Looks great Lyle. Hard to see any join