Thread: Disston crosscut saw

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, if the handle is original, I think you could safely bet half a stubby that it will be beech - it was plentiful & cheap back in the day. American beech does tend to have finer rays than its European cousin on average (at least what I've seen of both), but there is much overlap, and the rays can be hard to see on either depending on the orientation of the wood. I don't think Disston or any other maker fussed too much about having perfectly quarter-cut pieces for utility tools...
Cheers,
Ian

Ian

This British panel saw made by Robert Sorby demonstrates the "fleck" I see in the British Beech.

Robert Sorby panel saw 003.jpgRobert Sorby panel saw 010.jpg

In the second pic you can see the thin lines on the grip more clearly, which are the medullary rays. However. there are also the rounded lights in the first pic in particular but also in the second pic, which is what I refer to as "flecks" and I have not seen that at all in the American timber. If there are no other identifiers, it is how I distinguish which side of the Atlantic the saw belongs. It may be that these "flecks" are also part of the medullary rays: I don't know, but either way, I don't see this feature on the American product.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul. I also have a couple of older British saws with that type of Beech handle. I think that they are some of the nicest timbers for handles I have ever seen. I will get a chance soon I hope, to have a better look at the saw.

MA

I appreciate that work commitments are probably keeping you from the saw for the moment, but I chanced on one of the supplementary handles (or helper handles if you prefer) for sale on US Ebay and thought it might again be helpful if you decide to fashion a replacement. It was for sale for US$28 (I think), which I thought was a lot for a handle with cracks. Judging by the last pic it is almost certainly Beech, which fits in with Ian's comment that in those days it was the timber of choice for many saws.

Helper handle 1.jpgHelper handle 2.jpgHelper handle 3.jpg

If I was making this handle I think I would use a bolt with a long thread. Cut off the head and form a slit with a 1mm cutting disc on an angle grinder on the plain part of the shank. The nut (suggest a coupler nut) can be epoxied into the handle, a washer placed between the blade and the handle and a ferrule would be essential. It may be an advantage to thread one side of the pin hole so it can be pulled against the saw plate: Timber can match the new saw handle. All done.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul. That sounds like a plan. I did something very similar for my bowsaw. Pardon my ignorance but what is a coupler nut?

Paul, I think your "flecks" are medullary rays viewed side-on. Each cell is a wide, flat thing aligned radially so if viewed from the tangential surface, it's just a line, but viewed from a perfect radial surface it's a small scale. On a perfectly radial slice, you should see lots of scales almost full size, but you mostly see everything from lines to occasional full scales depending on how far the edge you are viewing is off radial.

The American beech I've seen has the same grain pattern, the rays may be a bit smaller on average, but I think there is much overlap. I have two samples of beech of known species. The back board of my bench is American beech (actually Canadian, but same species, F. grandiflora) and I have a saw handle I made from an old chair seat stamped "made in Hungary", so I think we can safely assume it is F. sylvatica. The chair seats are very pale, but the ray-fleck is pretty much the same size as in the beech on my bench. Apart from colour, I couldn't pick them apart.

I asked Dr, Google how to differentiate the species and it would seem they are easy enough to distinguish by leaves & fruits, but I couldn't find anything on the wood. I could be way out due to small sample-size, so if anyone can find some reliable information on the woods, it would be nice to settle the matter one way or the other.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Paul. That sounds like a plan. I did something very similar for my bowsaw. Pardon my ignorance but what is a coupler nut?

MA

A coupler nut is just a long nut primarily used for joining two lengths of threaded rod or two bolts.

Coupler nut.jpg

It may not be necessary and maybe I would not go out of my way to obtain one, but it would probably give more gluing area to fix it inside the handle and make the device more rigid.

Regards
Paul

Now that will be very handy. Found my post on one of my saws and this has the same style of beech

Paschal lamb

Paul,

I don't know how common Atkins saws are over there in Oz, but there's this: E.C. Atkins Saws

But, yes; it won't be me, but it would be lovely if several someones around the world would each choose a saw manufacturer about which to obsess, and bring us good website on Spear and Jackson, Simonds, etc. (sorry for not knowing Australian saw makers - you folks don't seem to have exported enough of your products to the U.S. to make a mark here).

Originally Posted by Bill Houghton

...... (sorry for not knowing Australian saw makers - you folks don't seem to have exported enough of your products to the U.S. to make a mark here)......

Nothing to apologise for, Bill - I don't think there was ever a local sawmaker of any note here. Disston did "make" saws for a while, way back, but afaik, all the bits were imported, so "assemble' would be more accurate than "make". We have a boutique maker of backsaws atm, but I doubt they are exporting wildly. As a small (population, that is) country, manufacturing has always been something of a problem due to restricted volumes & small markets. Stanley did have a branch plant here for a while in the 60-80s & made a few planes & chisels amongst other hardware type stuff, but I don't think anyone made saws from scratch. I vaguely remember seeing something about Australian-made handsaws in a very old McWhirter's catalogue, but can't remember the details, maybe Paul knows something??

Our small population means limited markets, labour costs are high, and being a million miles from anywhere else all combine to make exporting difficult. We had some manufacturing capability in the middle of last century, but it hid behind protective tariffs until the economists persuaded the politicians that "free markets" are the only way to go. I think a few people have been re-considering the economist's view after recent events; finding yourself devoid of all manner of basic stuff during the pandemic & having no local source was a bit of a shock to some....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Bill Houghton

Paul,

I don't know how common Atkins saws are over there in Oz, but there's this: E.C. Atkins Saws

But, yes; it won't be me, but it would be lovely if several someones around the world would each choose a saw manufacturer about which to obsess, and bring us good website on Spear and Jackson, Simonds, etc. (sorry for not knowing Australian saw makers - you folks don't seem to have exported enough of your products to the U.S. to make a mark here).

Bill

There are no Aussie sawmakers in general terms. Disston exported Canadian made Disstons to Australia: This was to take advantage of preferential import duties from another Commonwealth country and Simonds also exported saws to Australia. Saws of all three of the major manufacturers surface here in Australia, but in nowhere near the quantities that are in the US.

The Atkins link is a good one. Thanks for that.

This is a link for Simonds, but it is not comprehensive:

Simonds Saws (galootcentral.com)

It is a little out of date. I have more information nowadays and have toyed with creating an information style website (similar to The Disstonian Institute) but I have not done this as yet. I have an example of nearly every Simonds handsaw. Unfortunately, the Simonds company are not receptive to assisting with information.

In the meantime, for Simonds, you could view this thread, but it's shortcoming is that it evolved as new information came to hand and some of the early comment is incorrect. Really it needs updating and I have not got around to do that either .

The best resource for toolmaker's catalogues in general is :

International Tool Catalog Library : Free Texts : Free Download, Borrow and Streaming : Internet Archive

Just be aware the search engine is very specific. For example "E.C. Atkins" has to have exactly the correct spacing. "Simonds" will bring up a different result to "Simonds Saws" . The same gentleman, Mark Stansbury (your Atkins link above), is responsible for many of the downloaded catalogues (ahem, catalogs ).

Regards
Paul

Unwrapped the handle and removed from saw.

20220402_134443.jpg
Not sure I can glue this back together!! Especially with the chunk missing

20220402_134457.jpg
Not sure the wriggle nail is original

20220402_134714.jpg
I will keep the screws in for now, until I can trace shape onto new timber.

MA

Definitely a candidate for a new handle!

Regards
Paul

Ma,
I say you could repair that if you wanted too,But i would just make a new one too.

Looking forward too seeing what your dapple hands do.

Cheers Matt.

Mountain Ash,
Tracing a handle can induce errors so its better to photo copy the actual handle and use that as a template.
I made a replacement handle for one of those some years back. The old one was just being held together by being bolted to the blade. The front handle I used a bit of bolt sawed down the middle and a pin to hold it to the blade. Success with the handles but the saw steel destroyed a few drill bits and files and the project got put aside for a day when I can stop swearing at it. Had a look for the thread and it was 9 years ago.
There may be some info in there to help so good luck with it.

A tale of 2 saws

Your saw blade at least still has the clearance gullets and thats the bit that stopped me in my tracks. Still keeping my eye out for a more forgiving blade as the handles are ready to go.
Regards
John