Thread: Another convert to the dark side...

Hi Johknee,

Originally Posted by johknee

I'll see if I can refrain from gathering other resto' projects!

I've learnt that resistance is futile.

It is indeed a very good haul for the price!

Looking forward to the saw till build.

Cheers,
Andy

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi J. As Paul has already said "Nooooo!" I just use WD40 and sandpaper with a little wooden block as the backer (42 × 42 × 19). Start with 120 and work through grits to 400 or 600 W and D. Paul uses water and I thought he had something written down

The saw sharpening guide IanW linked to is the one. That (I have it in a plastic folder in the shed) plus YouTube tutorials (Paul has another good one, English guy) have been great for me.

johknee

This is the link I normally reference, because it covers almost everything plus working examples. Also Andy is easy to follow and was once a participant on this Forum. He had to rationalise and no longer participates over here unfortunately. It is long and to fully appreciate it you need to be a drinker. Sit down with a beverage.

Sharpening Western Saws - YouTube

Ian's reference is there too if you prefer to just read.

In conjunction with W&D paper around a small wooden block (size it so you can use every square mm of the sheet) just as MA has stated above, I use water to clean the saw plates because it is cheap and is actually less messy (they are all messy) and a lot less stinky than the other lubricants (mineral turps and WD40 to quote two). However you must not leave the water sitting on the plate for any length of time or it will rust. I alternate between the two sides for this reason rather than concentrating on a single side at a time. When you have finished the clean up to satisfaction it must be thoroughly dried. Dry with a rag or towel first to remove surplus water. Then a 35°C Australian sun may suffice, but I stick the plate (minus the handle) into our oven at 50°/60°. Full size hand saws (26") won't fit in a standard 600mm oven. You need to purchase a 900mm oven for SWMBO. Using it when she out shopping, visiting friends or otherwise engaged makes for an easier life.

If you decide to use WD40, it is cheaper to purchase as a straight liquid: Aerosols are more expensive, but maybe suitable for only one or two saws.

Regards
Paul

I found restoring old tools addictive. And yes they are magnetic as well. You start with a few and somehow more show up and join the party.

I wish you lots of fun not only restoring them, but hopefully using as well. In the end tools want to be put to work.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Thanks for the sharpening and restoration information. I'm wading through it slowly.

A few more photos. This is the file guide I mentioned earlier....

IMG_1211 (1).jpg IMG_1212.jpg IMG_1213.jpg

The backless backsaw. There's a marque/logo on one of the saw bolts...

IMG_1214.jpg

And it possesses an interesting tooth pattern Might be a good saw to practice sharpening/jointing on!

IMG_1215.jpg

Four sawsets: 3 x #77 and a Morrill??

IMG_1222.jpg

The chisels - not in the greatest shape, but some might be salvageable and good for sharpening practice!
IMG_1225.jpg IMG_1226.jpg IMG_1227.jpg

Gave some of the saws a quick clean with water + 400 W&D and found an etch on the 'warranted superior' saw.

IMG_1229.jpg. IMG_1231.jpg

My collection of handsaws. This will do, for now!
IMG_1228.jpg

...and back saws + backless backsaw!
IMG_1232.jpg

Plenty of work ahead

Try to fit some building time in between getting your tools sharpened and cleaned. That looks like an awful lot of work.

The file guide doesn't appear to be complete - I would expect the centre bit was part of a clamp which can be attached to the saw at the desired angle. From the picture, it looks as if it's been broken off. No matter, they are useless things imo, requiring special non-tapered files (& good luck finding those!). Far better (& faster) to learn to file consistently without such things, less faffing about, & when you can sharpen easily & quickly "freehand" you are more likely to touch up your saws more frequently, which is a good thing to do, sharp saws are every bit as pleasant to use as sharp planes & chisels...

The "keystone" mark on the 'backless' saw is a Disston mark if memory serves correct (it doesn't always!). I suspect the saw is a "lesser line" model made for a hardware chain to sell under their own branding or something similar. The saw itself would have been fine, they just cut out any frills or unnecessary extras. I reckon that set of fangs is about the most varied I've ever seen, not just 'cows & calves' but a few camels & the off sheep & lamb for good measure! When faced with varied teeth, I "top" them until the smaller teeth are about to disappear, then use what's left of the gullets as a guide to restore the spacing. That takes a bit of practice to get right, & with one as bad as this saw, I think it would be far quicker & easier to file all the teeth off & re-cut from scratch, using a template. It will probably use up more than one file by the time you kick the teeth into acceptable shape...

Some people (like myself) prefer the Eclipse style saw sets, while others like the one you have that looks like the Stanley 42 'pistol grip' style. My preference is partly 'cos I started with an Eclipse & got used to it, but also because I find it easier to see what I'm doing with it. With the Eclipse, I like to sit on a stool at the door of my shed (where the light is strong) & hold the saw so I'm looking down at the top of the tooth line as I work. This makes it easy to see which way the teeth lie & I'm less likely to skip a tooth or set two consecutive teeth in the same direction (always a risk for me when setting very fine teeth). The 42 style set is held at the side of the saw & I find it obscures the tooth I'm working on more. The action of each style is different too, the 'top' handle moves on the Eclipse, while the 'front' one moves on the 42. Some folks find the Eclipse more tiring to squeeze than the 42. I do find my forearm getting a bit fed-up after setting 3 handsaws in a row, but that would be the most I'd ever do at once, so it's tolerable. I'm sure it's just what you get used to ..

You've certainly got a bit of cleaning & tidying up there - great jobs for rainy afternoons when you want to just fiddle away with little jobs that that don't require much mental effort, & don't drown out the background music....

Cheers,

Hi J. I have a Morell Apex saw set and I quite like it. It does leave a little mark on the blade below the teeth but this seens to disappear on use. I also have the Eclipse and the Stanley. The Stanley is a little fiddler to set the set. The Warranted Superior medallion is the English version (USA ones have an eagle) and these are usually very good saws. The more photo's you post the more I realise how very well you did. Some great chisel steel there too.

Originally Posted by johknee

Thanks for the sharpening and restoration information. I'm wading through it slowly.

A few more photos. This is the file guide I mentioned earlier....

IMG_1211 (1).jpg IMG_1212.jpg IMG_1213.jpg

The backless backsaw. There's a marque/logo on one of the saw bolts...

IMG_1214.jpg

And it possesses an interesting tooth pattern Might be a good saw to practice sharpening/jointing on!

IMG_1215.jpg

Four sawsets: 3 x #77 and a Morrill??

IMG_1222.jpg

The chisels - not in the greatest shape, but some might be salvageable and good for sharpening practice!
IMG_1225.jpg IMG_1226.jpg IMG_1227.jpg

Gave some of the saws a quick clean with water + 400 W&D and found an etch on the 'warranted superior' saw.

IMG_1229.jpg. IMG_1231.jpg

My collection of handsaws. This will do, for now!
IMG_1228.jpg

...and back saws + backless backsaw!
IMG_1232.jpg

Plenty of work ahead

johknee

Thanks for the additional pix. I am not familiar with those types of file guides so I can't help with that. If you are lucky one of those three eclipse saw sets will have a narrow plunger, which is better suited for setting fine teeth. The Morrill saw set is an old style similar to Eclipse, but not like the Stanley 42 series. I think I have one somewhere and, if I can find it, I will check it out.

The Lloyd Davies saw is a secondary line made by Spear & Jackson.

The keystone symbol is as Ian has said used by Disston. However, I have only seen this once on the saw screws as opposed to the medallion. It was on a saw a work colleague had and I have been unable to find any further information around it. His saw was in bits with not very much more than a handle!

Lots of absorbing work there for you.



Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by IanW

The file guide doesn't appear to be complete - I would expect the centre bit was part of a clamp which can be attached to the saw at the desired angle. From the picture, it looks as if it's been broken off. No matter, they are useless things imo, requiring special non-tapered files (& good luck finding those!).

.

Now that you mention it, I can see how it may be incomplete. Perhaps it was like a chainsaw guide, something like this.....


61R60jP8HYL._AC_SX679_.jpg

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi J. I have a Morell Apex saw set and I quite like it. It does leave a little mark on the blade below the teeth but this seens to disappear on use. I also have the Eclipse and the Stanley. The Stanley is a little fiddler to set the set. The Warranted Superior medallion is the English version (USA ones have an eagle) and these are usually very good saws. The more photo's you post the more I realise how very well you did. Some great chisel steel there too.

Thanks, MA.
I hope to make some new handles for the chisels once they're cleaned and sharpened!

Originally Posted by johknee

Thanks, MA.
I hope to make some new handles for the chisels once they're cleaned and sharpened!

The most challenging part of chisel (or plane blade) work is flattening the back. The back of the blade up to, say, 10mm back from the sharp, or more likely blunt, edge needs to be flat and as defect free as possible. The bevel with grinding and sharpening will automatically become defect free. A sharp edge is the perfect meeting of two surfaces.

Regards
Paul

PS: I have not found the bundle of saw sets yet. Not sure where they have hidden themselves.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

.......PS: I have not found the bundle of saw sets yet. Not sure where they have hidden themselves...

That darned museum cataloger falling down on the job again, eh?

Originally Posted by IanW

That darned museum cataloger falling down on the job again, eh?

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The keystone symbol is as Ian has said used by Disston. However, I have only seen this once on the saw screws as opposed to the medallion. It was on a saw a work colleague had and I have been unable to find any further information around it. His saw was in bits with not very much more than a handle!



Regards
Paul

johknee


I still have not located the saw sets I mentioned before but in looking through the Forum today I did chance on the thread where I had asked about the keystone symbol featuring on the ordinary saw screws as opposed to the medallion. You can see it here. In fact my memory deceived me as it was the handle that was missing (and a good deal of the saw plate!)

Disston mystery saw.jpgDisston with Keystone logo..jpg

To this day I have not managed to track down the origins and it remains a mystery, but at least with your saw I now know that such hardware certainly did exist for a time. My opinion is that the medallion shown above is mis-matched with the other three screws.

Regards
Paul