Thread: Forcing subbies to install tracking apps QLD

I'm a practising barrister. I do not practice in industrial law. I cannot think of any way the practice would be "per se" unlawful. I can imagine some ways that a combination of tracking with other behaviour that could be seen as abusive could raise issues with general laws, but not tracking without more.

I don't usually jump in on law topics but I thought I would given this thread seems to represent some genuine and concerted thoughts.

Chris

I hope I don't sound like too much of a numby but what is the purpose of the tracking app?

Even though I don't own a mobile and have no intention of doing so, I know that a tracking app gives a real time location (and historical track) of the mobile. To what purpose in relation to a subbies employment?

Regards
Twosheds

PS I'm not playing devils advocate or being a smarty arssey.

Originally Posted by twosheds

I hope I don't sound like too much of a numby but what is the purpose of the tracking app?

Even though I don't own a mobile and have no intention of doing so, I know that a tracking app gives a real time location (and historical track) of the mobile. To what purpose in relation to a subbies employment?

Regards
Twosheds

PS I'm not playing devils advocate or being a smarty arssey.

Mostly, for specific sites, it is only used to keep track of who is on site and when. Pretty much an innocent intent using technology that most people .ie. subbies already have. However, for specific subbies it may subject them to more risk than they would normally experience e.g. female subbies.

As an ex-Telstra employee, I have been subjected to such invasive technology in the latter part of my career with VTrack which monitored our work vehicle's location 24/7.

That shouldn't be a problem in itself, however "management" began using the technology in ways that were very invasive and contrary to the initial communicated intent of "employee safety." We raised concerns at the implementation about that becoming a very real misuse and that IF that was the case (health and safety) where is the duress / alarm function? Funny that there was no such functionality in the system. As it also acted as a "mobile hot spot" there is the possibility that even calls from privately owned devices could be "tracked."

Certainly, plenty of staff were subjected to disciplinary action on the basis of "evidence" obtained from the technology.

As Chris states - "I cannot think of any way the practice would be "per se" unlawful." It's the misuse of the technology that is now available to "perpetrators" that creates the problems. As we all know when the technology is available someone will exploit it for their own gain.

The seedy places some of my Subbies used to go you wouldn't want to track them anyway.

Originally Posted by twosheds

I hope I don't sound like too much of a numby but what is the purpose of the tracking app?

Even though I don't own a mobile and have no intention of doing so, I know that a tracking app gives a real time location (and historical track) of the mobile. To what purpose in relation to a subbies employment?

Regards
Twosheds

PS I'm not playing devils advocate or being a smarty arssey.

I posted a screen shot of what the app permissions are. It doesn't just sign you onto a jobsite. It precisely tracks location, has access to your files, can create, change and delete files, access to your camera and microphone... I get access to the camera to scan the barcode but not to take videos, that it says it can...

If a company needed to have a sign in, all they need to do is create a barcode that any phone these days can scan that takes the tradie to a website, that a fairly low skilled web developer can produce, where they can enter their details... It is also easy to set up auto fill so you only have to scan the bar code and press enter... There literally is no need for them to need anything else.

I'm certainly not keen to have an app on my personal phone that can take control of my camera and microphone or files... Another option is I could firewall it so it can't do anything.

Originally Posted by Cgcc

I'm a practising barrister. I do not practice in industrial law. I cannot think of any way the practice would be "per se" unlawful. I can imagine some ways that a combination of tracking with other behaviour that could be seen as abusive could raise issues with general laws, but not tracking without more.

I don't usually jump in on law topics but I thought I would given this thread seems to represent some genuine and concerted thoughts.

Chris

Talking to the OAIC, there is a possibility that the app violates privacy in that their access to my phone for what would be needed is excessive... I.e. why do they need access to my microphone, and can activate it any time they like and record what's in range. Take pictures and video. Create, alter, and delete files - take screen shots... Problem is I have to query, one of, if not the largest building company in Australia, that uses the app to find out why they need such invasive access. That would most likely end in a call to the company I sub-contract to telling them I'm no longer allowed on their work sites, for some bullsh*t reason(s)...

My brother is plumber & gas fitter, a company he subbed for ten years ago issued him with a GPS enabled Ipad and his current company has had trackers for five years.
Gone are the days of banging out the jobs and doing the paperwork while the apprentice handles the drive home, all paperwork has to be done at site.
Technically they are not forcing anything, you can choose not to be tracked and they can choose to employ someone else.
It's like everything new, some people resist it - I bet there was guys who kicked & screamed when PPE and testing/tagging was made law.
My first job in a steel factory in 1985 I was told steel cap boots were not compolsory - but I was also told that should I suffer a foot injury while not wearing steel caps that I wouldn't be covered by workers comp.

Twisties and chip packets accidentally left next to GPS receivers or on top of a mobile phone will block signals.

Also, just sayin, that an $8 key-fob can be bought on AliExpress that emits a corrupt GPS signal for a few metres. Runs on a watch battery for months.

Originally Posted by smidsy

My brother is plumber & gas fitter, a company he subbed for ten years ago issued him with a GPS enabled Ipad and his current company has had trackers for five years.
Gone are the days of banging out the jobs and doing the paperwork while the apprentice handles the drive home, all paperwork has to be done at site.
Technically they are not forcing anything, you can choose not to be tracked and they can choose to employ someone else.
It's like everything new, some people resist it - I bet there was guys who kicked & screamed when PPE and testing/tagging was made law.
My first job in a steel factory in 1985 I was told steel cap boots were not compolsory - but I was also told that should I suffer a foot injury while not wearing steel caps that I wouldn't be covered by workers comp.

So you're ok with being tracked 24 hours a day? You see the app doesn't just turn off because you signed out. Remember, these apps don't turn off... Have your microphone record you when you don't know? Have your camera record video when you don't know? Have screen shots of your activity when you sit, say for 5 mins... while you're txting someone in a "private" conversation.

Now also, remember I'm a subbie. I don't charge by the hour. So where and how long I sit is none of anyones F$$^ing business if I"m keeping to the schedule...

Answer honestly or not at all.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Twisties and chip packets accidentally left next to GPS receivers or on top of a mobile phone will block signals.

Also, just sayin, that an $8 key-fob can be bought on AliExpress that emits a corrupt GPS signal for a few metres. Runs on a watch battery for months.

Thx for that, but a second phone that I turn off 10 seconds after I sign in is better.

Don't know about tracking apps but the last few projects I've been on the induction, TBT and sign-on has all been via an app. Signonsite will sign you in if you are in the vicinity of the job.

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

So you're ok with being tracked 24 hours a day? You see the app doesn't just turn off because you signed out. Remember, these apps don't turn off... Have your microphone record you when you don't know? Have your camera record video when you don't know? Have screen shots of your activity when you sit, say for 5 mins... while you're txting someone in a "private" conversation.

Now also, remember I'm a subbie. I don't charge by the hour. So where and how long I sit is none of anyones F$$^ing business if I"m keeping to the schedule...

Answer honestly or not at all.

That is the big issue! Excessive and non-employment related tracking.

If, as a subbie, you work for more than one contractor who implements this technology then the risk of misuse increases.

IF they are so interested in exactly what you are doing at any point in time raises the question are you truly an independent sub-contractor or an employee???

Employees may not have choices with technology supplied by their employer however truly independent sub-contractors do have a choice.

Telstra initially would not supply me with a "work mobile" so I point blank refused to discuss work related matters on my privately owned mobile device/s.

Times have moved on and technology is becoming very intrusive - Big Brother stuff.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Twisties and chip packets accidentally left next to GPS receivers or on top of a mobile phone will block signals.

Also, just sayin, that an $8 key-fob can be bought on AliExpress that emits a corrupt GPS signal for a few metres. Runs on a watch battery for months.

You don’t want to be caught with one of these the ACMA will make their budget with fines you will need to pay.


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I am truck driver and last Friday I was told I needed to install a sign in app in order to deliver a load to Woolworths warehouse. I didn’t even finish reading the terms before deciding there was no way I would install the app, apparently there is no other option in order to deliver to woolies.

I delivered the load elsewhere and it had to be reloaded and taken to the warehouse by another contractor.

There really needs to be some laws to protect people from these invasions into our personal information. I am fortunate I can afford to say no, quit my job if needed, unfortunately too many have little choice.

Cheers Andrew