Disston Back Saw

I'm interested in the date and type for this particular saw. I've researched the medallion and believe it to be pre-1917.

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I've accessed the Disstonian Institue but can't seem to find a pic of this particular saw. The saw nuts are in an unusual position and the handle is unusual wood too.
It still has a very nice etch. Any ideas on where to look for more info on this saw would be appreciated.
I've had a look through this forum's posts and have found the same stuff as on the interwebby.
I'm planning to sell it but am not sure what I have.

TT


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I have a Disston backsaw narrowed down to the 1903-1916 period. Yours appears to not have the original handle, unless it was the new shape introduced in 1918. Also, the bolts are not in the correct position for that era - the bolts should be in the vertical holes and the emblem should be in the top hole nearest the hand. Another clue will be whether the back is brass or steel or heated steel coated with linseed oil (blue back). Regardless, they are a great saw and mine is in daily use and still going strong. You can get further information on the Disstonian Institute website under the section for Backsaws - as long as you have plenty of time.

Thanks Gary, that makes sense. I hadn’t considered the handle would be a replacement. It’s really comfortable to hold.
Doesn’t show up well in the pics but the plate looks like it’s been blued or treated.
The bolts look to be smaller than the holes, so the handle may be from another saw as well.

TT

TT

I think Gary's assertion is correct with the replacement handle.

I have not seen the medallion in that position on a back saw (a Disston mitre saw yes, but that has a different handle). Apart from the medallion position there is the issue of the saw screws too small or the holes too big. Aditionally the timber has a strange grain and commercial manufacturers, particularly Disston, selected straight grained material deliberately for stability.

The majority of American backsaws used steel backs. Disston primarily used blued steel backs (No.4), but also brass backs (No.5) and polished steel backs (No.7). Disston had a huge range of saws and there were many other version too in the backsaw range including No.9 (Reagan handle), No,77 (no-set) and a half back model. Then there were dovetail saws including Gents saws as well as the mitre saws (also designated No.4) which were huge and like back saws on steroids.

Regards
Paul

I'd wager London to a brick it's a home-made handle. It's well done, but there are little pointers that convince me it's not a factory job. Apart from the "misplaced" medallion, & the oversized countersinks, the chamfer on the top of the cheeks is wider than usual, and the surface finish in the corners is a bit rougher. And then there's the wood, which looks a lot like Black Walnut, but it could be any number of others. I read somewhere that Disston did use Walnut on a few saws, but can't remember where I saw that, or how reliable the information is. In any case, it's an excellent handle wood, and one likely to be chosen by an intrepid re-handler. DAMHIK: Attachment 474308

You can see the bit I used for the counter-sinks didn't quite match the bolt heads either. That was about 1982, at the beginning of a very slippery slope. Been a few more handles made since then, but only a couple in American Black Walnut, you don't find a lot of it around where I live now. But I did have enough left of the Walnut I brought home with me to replace that first attempt with a more conventional closed handle (and fit the bolt heads properly, this time!).
Attachment 474309
:)
Cheers,

And if you would like to read an excellent article, with photographs, on a Disston Identification and Restoration, this article gives a step by step guide on what the writer did at Saw Talk #2: Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration - by Brit @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

Thanks Gary for the link. Brit is Andy Lovelock who used to contribute to this Forum under the moniker Brital. Unfortunately he decided he was spending too much time on the net and had to rationalise his time. Oz got sacrificed. Pity as he is a good raconteur.

Regards
Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanW

I'd wager London to a brick it's a home-made handle. It's well done, but there are little pointers that convince me it's not a factory job. Apart from the "misplaced" medallion, & the oversized countersinks, the chamfer on the top of the cheeks is wider than usual, and the surface finish in the corners is a bit rougher. And then there's the wood, which looks a lot like Black Walnut, but it could be any number of others. I read somewhere that Disston did use Walnut on a few saws, but can't remember where I saw that, or how reliable the information is. ,

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Ian

Walnut does appear on a few saws although I don't recall it ever being used on commercially made backsaws. In fact I have only seen Apple, Beech or unidentified hardwood for that purpose.

Walnut was used by Disston during WW2 for their Victory saws. The story goes that Disston was unable to source the Brazilian Rosewood they had used for this model since 1914. Instead, they used Walnut and redesignated the number D42 (For these models there was no hyphen) instead of D-15 and D-115. The saws did not appear in any catalogues and itis more than likely there were no catalogues produced during the war years. My belief is that the number was to mark America's entry into WW2 and these saws adopted Churchill's "V" for victory emblem. The wartime victory saws also displayed the morse code for "V" at the top of the "V".

Here are a couple with the Walnut handle.

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There was another version: The D43, which my conjecture is marked the second year America participated in WW2. It is certainly less commonly seen than the D42. That was the end of the war time models, I guess it was too depressing to continue the series and just emphasised how long it was taking and how resilient and determined the enemy were.

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The hardware on these saws was supposedly steel as brass was now going into the war effort for shell casings. Certainly most of the D42s I have seen have steel saw screws and all the D43s. The D42 above has brass hardware and I can't tell if that was original or has been replaced.

As I was looking for another bit of information I saw this WMC saw and quickly snapped it as I have previously mentioned that saws with a reinforcing metal plate usually had walnut handles. This is from 1895:

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The metal plate saws were normally at the lower end of the manufacturer's range and almost always were a straight back saw.

Regards
Paul

Looking at the Disstonian site I'm pretty sure it's a No 4. I see the 12" blades are 3' in depth. My saw is 2 1/2" and I'm wondering if the previous owner has converted it to a rip saw as this was an extra cost to the buyer. I count 11 TPI (not sure I'm counting properly). And it looks to be set for ripping.

TT

TT

I think you are right and it very likely started out life as a No.4, although not because of the dimensions. The No.4 was the most popular model and made in sizes from 8" through to 18".

My count is 11ppi (which is the same as 10tpi).It could have begun life as either a rip or crosscut pattern. My understanding is that you could have pretty much whatever you wanted and there was no extra charge. This information was often in Disston's publications. I think they may have supplied mixed dozens unless something specific was stipulated.

11ppi is a good size for a rip saw but a tad coarse for a crosscut (with regards to backsaws). Disston seemed to make a lot of 13ppi crosscut versions. However, I am sure it would work very well either as a crosscut or a rip. We do tend to get a little bit obsessive about what is a good tooth count. :)

These pix are from the 1915 catalogue. The first one shows the three backsaws that were identical except for the style of back (and interestingly does not depict the No. in the etch). You can see why the No.4 was the most popular: It was the cheapest. The prices quoted are for a dozen saws. The dealers would have had an accompanying discount sheet effectively giving them the trade price.

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You can see a reference to rip teeth at the top of the pic above. It relates to the mitre saw. I have not seen rip teeth on a mitre saw as by nature they are always crosscutting so that one is something of a mystery. I draw your attention to it more to indicate that you could have whatever the hell you wanted.

I mentioned previously that Disston had a wide range of backsaws. As I had the catalogue open here are a few more:

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Sorry about the curvature as I couldn't hold the page flat without both obscuring the information and giving a full frontal of my left hand. I photographed the catalogue instead of scanning as our expensive printer is a right piece of s@*t and leads me to lapse into the vernacular. :rolleyes:

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul.
I must be going bonkers but I could have sworn I saw on a Disston page where the rip pattern was available at an "extra" cost.
I can't find it now and once again regret that there is no medication for CRAFT. :2tsup:

TT