Making Internal Stairs - only 2 treads - Stair Makers want a bomb!

Hi All,

I've been slowly renovating my split level house and I have come to the stair's dilema:rolleyes:

The current (original) stairs are MDF and covered in carpet. I need to replace them with solid timber in a colour to match the polished cypress boards they will sit on.

I was thinking Maple, Tassie Oak, etc, but after obtaining a couple of quotes to build and install, the price is more than a six piece solid timber Tas Oak dining table:?


Is this something a very basic woodworker could achieve or am I at the mercy of the stair makers?

I have attached a photo of what I would like to achieve. I haven't got a photo of the actual current stairs. My stairs are a little wider than the photo.
How much would you think this would cost???

Attachment 280113

As long as you maintain "easy going" stair tread width to riser ratio, you should be fine to make them yourself.

Stairs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This might assist.

The clue you have would likely be the set of stairs already there...make sure to copy the tread width to riser heights ratio already in place, before you remove them and make sure the new steps match what was there in this respect (if they were done right in the first place).

Easy.

The curved risers would add to the cost (and level of difficulty).
TM

Howdy, stairs can be a nightmare. I have knocked up a simple two stepper fitted inbetween the hall walls and I would guess it took me a good afternoon to draw up the measurements reading all and sundry on AS:3blah blah. Turns out it is nearly as simple as 190mm tread 190mm riser. Having an even step height is the key so divide height by number of steps.
From your picture if it was me I would make each step a separate box and stack them, fixed to each other. Tas oak is what I used against a blackbutt floor and looks fine. The link from Timeless will give ample info on setting up. When building stairs it pays to measure not twice but four times as the stringer bit can be a bit baffling. But for me the box idea would be the way to go,
cheers

I agree with Timless Timber.

I am not familiar that builders still abide with the Standards, however, a internet search will assist, if not only for your information, with the stair construction particularly Australian Standard AS1657 Section 4 and Building Code of Australia section 3.9.1 Stair Construction.

And yes, the curved risers would considerably to the cost.

Quote:

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builders still abide with the Standards,

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Standards have slipped appreciably Bll now days and local building bylaws will allow almost anything heck I've seen ladders approved as stairs.:rolleyes:

Used to be a time you couldn't go more than 7 treads to a landing and change of direction, but nowadays I see display homes with stairs in a straight run from floor to ceiling - enough to fall and definitely break a neck....specially for kids - just a question of time before hospitals and coroners get back to the standards we used to have for safety reasons IMHO - just need to snap enough necks first.

Remember back to the hollyweird movie sets of the musicals back in the 20's and 30's (Black n white) when the likes of ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire would dance up and down long sweeping staircases that had hundreds of treads, it was all the rage back then - for stair cases until all these womens with spindly necks in stilletto heels started breaking necks falling down them.

Thats when the 7 treads to a landing & change off direction building code laws were brought in - but now everything old has been forgotten...

Heck, I see doors to public buildings hung on the inside of the frame, opening inwards (like the doors on your house) except they are s'posed to be hung on the outside of the frame opening outwards... (so that like the UK Wembley stadium fire where the exit doors weren't fire escape doors - and opened inwards and hundreds died because of the stampede to get out they couldn't get the crowd to back up enough to open the doors inwards to get out - people at the front were crushed to death and then those at the rear burnt to death!

I challenged a builder on it once (who hung the doors inside on a shire office building open to the public) and he proudly proclaimed that its not specified in the building code - and he was right, its not. (it's actually in the fire code not the building code) but you don't need to know that to be a builder nowadays, go figure.

Same wit owner builders - once upon a time they were restricted to single story abodes - so they didn't pour suspended slabs etc but now days any idiot can owner build 2 story high, and then they wonder why balconies fall off buildings and people die and the coroner has to work out why!.

It's like drivers licenses - anyone can get one out of a Weeties packet based on what I see on the roads today! :D

There are no standards anymore these days.:no:

Courtesy of Blocklayer on the renovate forums - Stair Calculator - Layout Stair Stringer, Headroom Rise Run - Metric

Thanks for the replies.

Boxing the stairs seems a good idea. I agree the curved ends are labour intensive but the only other option for this situation would be to angle the corners (or several angles).

My main issue is time... and where to obtain suitable material for a decent price.

Finding services to help shape and dress the slabs, etc.

I'm in Southern Sydney and would appreciate some local knowledge on where to start.

My Wife had another quote done yesterday, so I'll await the news soon. They suggested Blackbutt timber.

Hi EDGEAUDIO,

Fellow woodie told me a 'secret' recently re the sourcing of some good old timber at a reasonable price.

They have great old tables and furniture at the Salvo's and Lifeline stores and they are usually very reasonably priced, well seasoned and ready to cut to size.

All the best.
Cheers,
Fred

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Originally Posted by Wrongwayfirst

Turns out it is nearly as simple as 190mm tread 190mm riser. Having an even step height is the key so divide height by number of steps.

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Can't be that simple because a 190 tread is not BCA compliant.

Tools

I would be interested to know when and where the regulation regarding 7 treads between landings was. For as long as I can remember and in all my older references it has been 17 treads/18 rises between landings. I take the BCA very seriously even if it costs me jobs. with reference to the original question. I would quote that job at around $2800 depending on timber species.

Ben

Here's a photo of the actual current stairs that I want to replace.

The wall opening is 2100.
Height of opening is 535.
Total width of the stairs 2600.

Tread width 250.

If I could get various width slabs, would it be a case of bisket joining together and then finishing?Attachment 280300

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Originally Posted by Tools

Can't be that simple because a 190 tread is not BCA compliant.

Tools

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Point taken almost as simple as 240mm tread 190mm riser and some great links.

Ben, if the old man was still alive today I'd ask him for you!.

Born in 1931, passed his builders rego exams in WA in 1951/2 at end of his 5 year apprenticeship (started aged 15 or year 9 it would be these days) & was the youngest in WA at the time to have done so, but back in those days, you couldn't be issued a builders rego, until you'd worked a total of 7 years in the trade under a reg'd builder.
So the old man went out working for a reg'd builder in Perth A.T. Bryan & co - building war service settlement homes & shearers sheds etc at Rocky Gully Wundowie and Perilup for the 2 years until ~1953/4 when he was allowed to use his registration and came back to Perth.

His W.A. builders rego number was 938 (these days they are up round 12,000+ last I heard). He operated Apex Home Building in Perth until about 1976 or so... 25 years and his last house he built was a 3 story on the river in Jutland Parade Dalkieth (on the river) next to Bondie's place for one of the Bell Bros daughters, as her wedding present.

After that he "semi retired" (actually went back on the tools doing his first love - making fine furniture) until he died on new years day 2005.

I worked about 20 years with him.... in partnership in the timber business until he died and learned a heck of a lot from him... but the truth is the old bugger forgot more than I ever learned.

He was always moaning about unions, owner builders being allowed to do double story's, and stairs without landings and change of direction & fire doors on public buildings that open inwards when the fire code say they must open outwards.

He was real old school... all his roofing work etc was before the days of electric hand saws etc - all done with rip saws...(Philadelphia Disston were his favorites).

2005 - 2013 and there's not many days I don't still miss the old bugger....

Esophogeal (throat) cancer (smoked a lot of his life) got him in the end.

I was truly blessed the ~ 20 years we had working together. He was a hell of a dad in the early days, and also his last 20 years - there was a period in between when he suffered alcoholism that he was pretty much a waste of space tho :rolleyes: - but he beat it, just as his did smoking, just in time to die from cancer go figure!. :no:

He could tell you chapter and verse where to find it and much more....

Me - not so unfortunately.

Re the 17 - 19 treads in a straight run (floor to ceiling), I mentioned it some years back to a regd builder at his display home...saying my old man would be rolling in his grave... and he said that it was changed quite some time back - I think now with small block size in Perth - if you want the 4x2 you have not much choice but to stand it on it's end and go up 2 story's... so just about every house these days is 2 story - and they all seem to have these straight run stairs now.

Mate a mine was a shire building inspector and he only knew anything about building from what he read in a book - because he was also the health inspector and spent all his time inspecting carcasses at the abattoir for his health inspector quals... so he knew little really about building... heck some of them these days don't even know that the shower floor should fall to the waste outlet.

I blame a lot of these TV reno building shows - the editing makes it look like anyone can do all the trades... easy peasy... and all in just 5 minutes, minus the adverts. :rolleyes:

Went to a young lady's house a while back...to quote her a kitchen, the hubby with no trade experience (office worker), had ripped out the entire kitchen, and bathroom (removed walls and even took up the concrete floor). He was re routing LNG copper pipes (kinking them to get round corners - you name it... not a plumber and not a licensed gas fitter)... :oo: :doh:

They had a kitchen flat pack they bought cheap at an auction - it didn't however fit their room, could I make it fit and install everything for them...power, water, gas, cabinets etc... but she had no $. (Hey we've all been there - no shame in that & I did feel sorry for her).

So - it turns out they bought the house with the intention of living in it... but hubby watched the TV reno shows and got all enthused and decided to do it all himself - and as a tradesman he makes a heck of a demolition guy! :doh: :D

So they were renting and paying the mortgage on this house they couldn't live in, coz numbskull ripped out the 2 most expensive rooms in the house to reno and then didn't have the ability to do the work. They couldn't live in the house, (or rent it out even) yet had to pay the mortgage on it and the rent on the house they were living in ...and you guessed it she was pregnant and they were going back to one wage.... and couldn't make ends meet. :no::roll:

I didn't leave -I literally RAN.... :)

Life's tough enough without taking on other peoples self inflicted problems - specially when they probably should have known better.

I'm a bit of a sucker myself for a sob story all too often - just finished building a shed for a guy I met at the shed place when I was buying mine... he is a shot firer at the mines... and hes definitely suited to blowin' things up coz as a builder or tradesman, man he sucks. :D However at least he could pay me something for my time and skills and knowledge... started out I was just going to shoot his levels for him...and set the pad out, but ended up building it from scratch (with him as owner builder).

I think a lot of the TV reno programs have a lot to answer for sometimes.

Our parents started off living in a shed on the block until they saved a deposit for a 2 x 1 bedroom house and after 10 years when they had some equity in it and the 2nd or 3rd child came along borrowed again and added extra rooms etc to end up with 4 x 2 with games rooms etc.

These days kids want to start with the whole shebang - 4 x 2, pool, games, theater, etc etc etc...and pay compounding interest on half a house they never live in for the 1st 10 years until the second and 3rd child come along.

Its dumb..if you think about it...

That was another of the old boys hobby horses.... that and the way real estate agents hired builders onto their staff and used their builders tickets to become "developers"...

We have gone a long way backwards from some of the simple ways life was a generation or 2 ago..in many areas - and not all of it is the progress that many think.

It's the me me me generation.

Couldn't agree more with Ben's comment's.
Regards Rod.