Problem Grinding P&N Rouging Gouge & A Problem Honing Skews

Problem 01

I have a 1" P&N Rouging Gouge, that has something strange going on.

Every time I try to grind the bevel one portion of the flute wing??? just collapses as if the steel just evaporates. It is like that one spot is spongy. It happens again and again at the same spot.

First I thought my bevel was to acute so I squared everything of and ground it again. As gentle as can be, a single stroke on the 80 grit aluminium oxide wheel and check.

And again it collapsed creating a dip in the bevel.

I am using a Woodcut True Grind that was given to me on a 6" 80 grit aluminium oxide wheel. Woodcut Tru-GrindWoodcut Tru-Grind Woodcut Tru-Grind

Problem 02

I have a 1" and 1/2" P&N skews. When I got the skew they were straight across, so I tried grinding a slightly radius to the skew as I am told it is less catchy.

Now I have found that the sharper I can get my skew the better it works. I just clean up the bevels with a 400 grit diamond plate and then a quick strop on a 1000 grit water stone.

However when I took the skew to the diamond plate to hone it a little I am having trouble keeping the gentle curve, on the diamond plate I am honing the edge straight again any advice.

Just guessing with Problem 1, but if it is only happening on one wing then I'd say that you have an under hardened or over tempered area there. The only remedy if that is the case is to keep grinding your way through that soft metal until you get to good steel. I must say that I haven't heard of this happening with P&N. Sometimes the very end on some of the Sheffield gouges had to be ground down for a bit before getting to their best steel.

On Problem 2, when hand honing a curve your elbow need to be on the inside of the curve. That is best achieved by placing the end of the skew and your elbow on a bench and swinging your arm from your elbow like a fulcrum and controlling the curve with the twist in your wrist. There is probably a photo of that out on the net somewhere.

Hi @NeilS - I figured that their was a problem with the steel for problem one I will grind again to see if it gets better.

My lack of imagination makes it hard to visualise your solution to problem two I will see if I can find a photo.

Problem 2: the way I hone my curved (actually Alan Lacer grind) skew is to use a small 600 grit diamond card, so the skew stands up and doesn’t move, but the honing card does all the motion. Are you doing the opposite? You will have less control. I hone straight off the grinder. Look for Alan Lacer - befriending the skew on YouTube, the honing bit is demonstrated at 27 minutes onward.. Cheers Swifty.

Are you sure its the steel?

P&N SRG's are a great tool however some were manufactured with the flute ground offset to the centerline to the tool profile.

I have one of them won as a prize from AWTEX. I have attached an image including my P&N SRG. Look closely at the wall thickness from LH to RH wings - the RHS is thicker walled on my P&N SRG. It does not affect the tool performance in use IF the user balances the grind.

If your gouge is similar and you are using the jig it will over grind one wing / side and under grind the other - unless you pay attention to balancing the grind. Simply grind the thicker side slightly longer than the thin side.

I finally got around to measuring the flute of my gouge and it a mess - their is 0.6 to 1 mm difference in thickness of flute wings left to right depending were I measure.

So I have the same as @Mobyturns

Well I can practice grinding - I have another basic spindle rouging gouge which I will use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thumbsucker

I finally got around to measuring the flute of my gouge and it a mess - their is 0.6 to 1 mm difference in thickness of flute wings left to right depending were I measure.

So I have the same as @Mobyturns

Well I can practice grinding - I have another basic spindle rouging gouge which I will use.

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Don't be discouraged, they are still close to the best and strongest SRG's ever made.You have to spend a lot, and I do mean a LOT of money to find a peer.

It's not that difficult to compensate for when using a jig, simply go light on the thin side and a little heavier on the thick side and will become second nature over time. SRG's don't really require a jig to grind the traditional "square" grind, a simple platform set to the bevel angle is all you require. Place the SRG on the rest with its axis perpendicular to the grinders axis i.e. in line with the wheel, then the grinding motion is a simple rotate 90 L then 180 R and reverse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mobyturns

.... they are still close to the best and strongest SRG's ever made. You have to spend a lot, and I do mean a LOT of money to find a peer.

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Agreed!

IMO, there are only two rivals to the P&N 1-1/4" SRG:

Carter & Sons - 1-1/4" Roughing Gouge Wood Lathe Turning Tool | Carter and Son Toolworks

Doug Thompson - 1-1/4" Spindle Rouging Gouge - Thompson Lathe Tools

Convert those prices to $A and you are looking at something north of A$355 + shipping + importing GST

The Carter is made from M42 and the the Thompson from V10. Of those two HSS types I would go for V10 for roughing down work.

All three SRGs have a sturdy round tangs that puts them apart from all of the other forged options.

As an alternative to one of those three, you could weld a long piece of suitable pipe to a forged SRG. That is what /Retired did, which he needed for the very big spindle jobs he was doing.

If you have a serviceable SRG, but with a flimsy tang and you have the necessary welding skills, that would be a cheaper solution, although you wouldn't want to make the weld area too brittle or you would be defeating the purpose of doing this.