coffee table finish?

Hi there finishers!

I'm coming to the end of my first proper build, a black walnut coffee table of a simple modern design, and was after opinions and advice on finishes. I'm after a matte finish that's fairly fool proof for a novice. I've used diluted Danish oil in the past, but wanted something more matte that also leaves a nice feel to the timber (its been sanded to 2000 grit). I don't mind putting in the time to do multiple coats with long drying time and was thinking something like Tung Oil?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers.

I love this stuff

Organoil

but still getting used to using it ask around theres a few gun finishers round here that can get this finish looking amazing im pretty sure you can get a nice Matte finish [i havent played enough to give you ant good oil on this]

You should find some member names mining some of the posts that may help you out

Regards Lou :D

Thanks Lou,

i was thinking of using the Organoil Tung Oil and diluting it with the citric oil. I'd also like to finish with wax I think. From what I've read, I think my process will be cut the oil 50/50 then:
- do first coat with a sand to create a slurry to fill the grain of the walnut (rubbing in with a cloth)
- 4-5 more coats allowing a few days to dry between then sanding with 0000 steel wool between coats
- apply the wax after a week or two once the tung oil has fully cured.

im not sure if that's the way to go, but hope so. What did you find worked for you? Has there been any particularly tricky issues with the Organoil?

I'm not sure whether the citric oil will make any difference to the Tung Oil finish or if I should just use turps or white spirit to cut the Tung oil (the price of citric oil is up there), and also not sure whether to use the steel wool or a sanding pad between coats.

Ive also heard that sometimes wax coating can attract dust? Not sure if that's true or a myth but thatlll also be important given I live in a Queenslander and dust is a way of life! I was thinking of using a U beaut wax, but wasn't really sure which one.

cheers.

A coffee table is likely to have a few spills on it, as well as be treated as a footstool. The finish needs to be durable and waterproof.

The other issue is that Black Walnut is likely to fade if in bright sunlight. You need to decide if you want to use a stain to retain the colour. That's the place to start.

After this I would use a water-based poly. An oil-based poly will yellow over time. The water-based stuff does not.

The trick is to apply the poly and obtain a clear, brushless finish. Three or four coats will remain natural and flat.

I am going to paste a section from an article I did on hand-finishing a Maple kitchen. This will show you the method I used ...

Hand finishing water-based poly


The decision was made to use Hard Maple for the kitchen doors and drawer fronts because the wood was light in colour and the figure was gentle. With very little experience in working with this wood (imported from the USA), I decided to use a USA-made finish, since this appeared to be recommended as the best way to retain its light colour. That's where I ran into the first hurdle.

General Finishes water-based poly received the top rating a few years ago in a Fine Woodwork magazine comparison, however it is best sprayed, and I do not have spray equipment.

I looked into brushing on the finish. General Finishes recommend using a foam brush. However, all the reviews and videos I examined complained of brush marks and streaks in the finish, whether by the best brush or foam. This is partly due to water-based finishes drying rapidly. They set in minutes - sometimes seconds! - and there is no time for the finish to be self-levelling.

To date, my main finishes have been oils and shellac, which I have applied with a rag. I would have liked to have used shellac here, but it is just not durable enough in a kitchen, which will be wiped down frequently. Still, my experience is in wiping a finish, and so I tried this with the GF. It went on well, and it showed promise. The only fly in the ointment was the water-based finish raised the grain, and this would require that the finish was sanded again.

I decided that I would use a dewaxed, white shellac as a sealer prior to wiping on the poly. My choice here is Ubeaut White Shellac, which is concentrated. It was diluted 50-50 with alcohol (methylated spirits).

For rags I used microfibre, and grey Scotch mesh smoothed the surface between coats.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu..._m36211531.jpg

This is a door pre-finish ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...l_5620e4af.jpg

Pulled apart. Every piece is carefully marked for mating and orientation ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...l_7552d131.jpg

Each surface was given two coats of shellac (with the grain) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...l_6ee7d725.jpg

.. followed with a rub down (with the grain) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...l_683669ea.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...l_188d604f.jpg

The shellac does colour the wood, but very slightly - far less than expected from its darkish amber. It dries quickly, and within minutes of each coat one can move onto the next.

Now it is the turn of the poly. It is white in the decanted bottle. but goes on clear.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...l_5b72ee9d.jpg

The finish is a little sticky, and it is drying fast. I apply it as if it were polish and I was polishing the surface of the wood – it is almost a case of rubbing off the finish rather than rubbing it on. You can do so in small circles, but you must finish (as it dries) by only rubbing along the grain. Using raking light, look for any streaks. Simply rub them out.

Once dry, use the grey mesh to rub the surface with the grain. It not only removes any streaks, which it blends all together, but it seems to raise a shine.

It takes at least 2-3 layers before the shine becomes apparent. The poly slowly builds in thickness. Polishing it as done here only adds a thin coating on each occasion. Then suddenly it is there ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu..._m5740ace2.jpg

I stop after 5 coats.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu..._m3d6cd5c6.jpg



Regards from Perth

Derek

Gidday

Finishing is one of the Darkest of Arts and your preferred "Finish" often unfolds as you get deeper into your woodworking Journey

It truly is an "Artform"

I'm on the other end of the spectrum to Derek and WOULD NOT use a build up finish like a poly or varnish on anything PERIOD other than a Kitchen benchtop simply for the durability required

Check out here for some "Good oil" on finishing:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/dev...wlou+finishing

If you havent had a chance have a read of the "Polishers Handbook" what i consider the definitive finishing Bible

You may also find it useful to check out how this fello goes about finishing a chair he is a master finisher note the finish he has chosen [Chairs are a high traffic item] and some of the issues he raises it's a great watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy_KwMspDBE

The trouble with finishes like the one Derek describes [and i say this respectfully and to propose a balanced dialectic] is that they look amazing you can adjust the sheen generate the lustre you desire they lure you in .............

then you touch or run your hand over them ....................... and the magic is gone no heart and soul no magic for that most important sense of all

...................Touch!

A great oil finish also retains and allows you to experience something tactile in the finish magic! compared to a glossey build up finish thats lifeless to the touch

My journey lead me to land in predominately use of an oil finish and paste wax if I have to use a build up finish I go Shellac mastering these finishes and their variations give you a lifetime of options and scope to play around perfecting it to your preferences

However Finishing is a very personal thing what some see as diamond others see as stone its one of those skills that really do take you on a journey try to do a search on some of Neils posts he has scattered Gems among the finishing forum that are simply iconic in regards to getting great finishing results quickly and efficiently especially for beginners [and i am still very much in this category]

My starting point for finishing is how can I make the grain of my timber "POP" and generate a great lustre and feel that honours the tree it came from we are so blessed in Australia with the diversity and magic of Aussie HArdwoods

Going back to your interest in Organoil I'll try to find it but forget who did the post one of the forumites did some testing on Hard burnishing oil and i was frankly surprised at how well it stood up [durability wise] hopefully who ever did the post will notice the banter and give you the "Good oil" :wink:


In regards to your queries I wouldn't sully the mix by making an addition or changing the recipe Neil always advises to follow the directions to the letter especially with this product there are also a few examples of how to apply the finish produced by the manufacturer on Youtube and the Timbercon channel

Regards Lou :D:D:D

LGS is the burnishing oil guy. Fence furniture has been doing some tests one of the oil products not sure if it was organoil though.

I really like and agree with NewLou's saying the starting point is how to make the grain pop and the timber feel - what he said in that sentence.

As a fairly inexperienced woodworker I don't find finishing intimidating. Reading about it it seems a mysterious and complicated subject but I enjoy it. There are limitless possibilities and except for wax and oil you can sand back and do it again if you aren't happy. Finish is a whole new level of what a piece can be.

Oil is is good and if you have sanded to 2000 then it will look good. I used a no name mix of linseed and Tung that was really easy and looked good a couple of times. If you do use water based poly it is worth diluting it - significantly for the first coat and sand because of raised grain then enough that you can wipe it on. I recently used it for the fist time and it wasn't difficult.

Thanks to all so far. I like the varied views and agree it's likely a personal choice.

I think I'll still go Tung Oil and wax as I like the ability to easily refinish if needed. I also like the idea of having a nice feel to it. I'll definitely keep the poly in mind though Derek and do some research. Fading of walnut is interesting Derek, I'm hoping because there is no direct sunlight where I intend to put it that I should be fine, otherwise I see that U Beaut also has a walnut tinted wax which could be worth considering.

Lou, I won't mess with the U Beaut wax, but from all I've read you need to cut the Tung Oil with a solvent to get best results. Unless I'm missing something?

Think I'll do a bit more reading too.

Hopefully LGS or Fence Furniture have some wisdom to add! I can only hope.

Hi jw2373,

Ilike hard burnishing oil for a finish on most things. Done properly it's extremely resistant to heat and stains (it doesn't stain with most things and is beautifully heat resistant. The finishing doesn't really take so long to do, but beware quick fixes, they're quick fora reason.

The Burnishing Oil is primarily Tung oil with some secret herbs and spices which I think are maybe preservatives or other things to stop goobies from growing in the oil. A 1 litre can will cost about $35 and will cover quite an area. Smells good too.

Essentially, the method is,

1. Prepare the wood by sanding, using a Random Orbital Sander, from 80-100grit and then through to somewhere about 2000-4000. I actually believe and am convinced that the extra pad at the end (4000g) does make a discernible difference. But I diverge.

Start with 80-100grit then sand along the rain with an even stoke for 10-12 passes (once up and back is one pass) proceed directly to the next grit and repeat the process. There is no need to overexert doing this. Allow the sander to do it's work. All you need do is use a little bit of pressure keeping the sander in a straight line.

Repeat this process using 150, 180, 240 and 400 grits. You should now have a pretty piece of smooth wood. When you get to 400 keep the 400 grit on the sander. You are about to start burnishing. Now spread the oil judiciously but evenly over the wood. It will immediately turn a beautiful rich colour. when you have a consistent cover of oil, begin sanding without vacuum and using the pad in an up and back movement for ten strokes up and back.

Without doing anything to the oil or work piece replace the 400 grit and replace with 800 grit, then continue up and back again for ten strokes. Don't wipe the result of the 400 sand just go on as if you hadn't stopped. Then change the pad for 500-800 grit and repeat. Use 800, 1000, 2000 and 4000 grits consecutively. As you go along, you will see the timber being burnished take colour and shine.

After finishing with the 4000g pad, take the sander away and wipe the work piece down with a dry soft cloth. And "That's it" If you feel the wood it will be warm to the touch. This is friction from the sanding process and it is what has made the oil precipitate in the wood.

I usually give the piece overnight to dry properly then proceed on my way. I tend to be meticulous in ensuring all areas of the item tat be seen are burnished. In those areas that you can't reach, I apply the oil directly once. What this process does to figure is sensational and it really brings up darker red.

So that's it! I'm going to try for a couple of pics here, if they don't appear, then find some other way.

Please feel free to email or PM me if you want more detail, or for anything to do with the method.

Regards,

Rob

Attachment 445865

Hi
Just in case you have no yet decided, here is another option for you. The video is of one of the most brilliant furniture maker and teacher. https://bit.ly/2QZz7eK

Gidday :)

HAve been enjoying some of the ideas and information that arose along the way throughout this thread this inspired some reading Im not usually a Fan of the Swartz but stumbled across this quote in one of his books:

“Take a piece of wood – plane, sand
and oil it and you will find it is a
beautiful thing. The more you do to it
from then on, the more chance that
you will make it worse.”
— Tage Frid (1915-2004)

professor, Rhode Island School of Design,
and author of the landmark
“Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking” (Taunton)

For all the Oil Finish FANS looks like where in good company................................... :2tsup:

Regards Lou

Lou, keep in mind that Chris Schwarz is a fan of finishing with wax or even soap. These are not durable finishes.

In all cases, finishing is a situation specific issue. Choose what is appropriate.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for the great advice everyone. I’ve changed approach a bit and am going to try either Shellac or default back to my usual danish oil finish. I looked at buffing oil but not quite the right finish that I’m after. Thanks again for the great advice!