Mortices with bevel edged chisels or not?

Paul Sellers has a video in which he compares the cutting of a mortice with a bevel edged chisel and and with a dedicated mortice chisel and he concluded that the bevel edged chisel worked just as well. And it did, for him.

I know you can cut mortices with standard chisel. That was all I used for many years. Then I got into making them with a router, a few simple jigs and some spiral upcut bits and this works fine too. It is also very noisy and messy. Then after cutting the mortices you have to either square the ends or round the tenons. So some of the time saved in the routing is lost in the rounding. I did have a small chisel morticer but I got ride of it. I just did not enjoy using it.

In recent times I have got hold of some Narex mortice chisels and have been using them, admittedly only in soft timbers. I would have to say that if all you have to do is a few mortices for a small table, then the mortice chisel method is not far behind the time taken for routing and is a lot less noisy. Also in comparison to using a bevel edged chisel, I find it easier and more accurate.

The Narex chisels come with a 30 degree bevel. I have touched up this to 35 degrees, but I dont really suppose in soft wood that this matters much. The edge holds well enough. They are bigger than a normal BE chisel and this feels better in my hand when I am thumping them with a mallet. But it is the shape of the blade which I have come to appreciate. The blade is tapered ever so slightly from tip to top. Also the back is a bit wider than the front. So it does not matter how much I thump them into the the mortice they do not jam. Also because they are thicker there is little tendency for them to twist in the mortice and I get nice clean sides. Anyway, for me there is no doubt that the ease of working, speed and general accuracy lies with the dedicated mortice chisel over the BE. And unless I am in the mood for noise, the total experience is more relaxing than using a machine.

It would be nice if these Narex chisels were available in Australia but they can be got from America cheaply enough. I got a full set of BE and mortice chisels (about 13 or so in total: I am not going outside to count them) for the cost of 2 or 3 Lie Neilsen chisels. I have no doubt that the LN are better and at some stage I fully intend to get some. But really, I dont need them. These Narex cut just fine.

chook, that's good news. There has been some serious thought go into the shape.

I bought a pair of 1/2" Narex skews from LV. Scrubbed back to 20 degrees, they are wonderful wood carving edges.
Also used to cut the slots for hafting the tangs of 9 different crooked knife blades.

So, 10 days later, I ordered a second pair. One I have kept at the original 25 degrees, the other was jointed square and ground into a carver's stop chisel, double bevel, 20* included angle.
The stop chisel has seen a lot of mallet work, outlining parts of carvings = bash-worthy handle.

As you say, Chook, it's quite possible to make a decent mortise with a BE chisel. I had nothing but a rough set of BEs for many a long year, too, & got by. If you wish to cut dovetails, BEs are pretty well essential, so if you can only afford one set of chisels, they're the ones to get, I suggest.

So why even bother with a second set (or in my case, several more sets, even!). There are lots of reasons, and what you end up with will depend on your work & style of work.

It began innocently enough for me when I picked up a nice 3/8 sash mortise chisel. I quickly discovered how much easier the flat back of this chisel made levering out waste without the chisel slewing in the mortise. You can chop out closer to the end of the mortise with less chance of crushing the edge. That makes it quicker, & easier & it needs only a shallow clean-up cut on the scribe line to finish a nice clean, square job. So before long I had a 'set' of these in the most-used (for me) sizes: 1/4, 5/16 (a very handy size), 3/8 and 1/2".

Once I had a second set, chisel-creep set in. :C With my BEs restricted to light chopping in mostly softer cabinet woods, I could safely drop the sharpening angles. This makes them good for paring as well, but for me, the ideal dovetail chisel is thin, which means it also needs to be short to minimise whipping. Paring chisels often need to be long to reach where they have to reach, so I built up a set of nice long, thin, chisels dedicated to paring, with extra-low sharpening angles. Then there are situations where a very short chisel is called for, so I got a set of stubbies together. These would be my least-used chisels, but when I need one, nothing else will do the job. I can justify them to myself because they are worn-down oldies, for which I made short, oval handles & they cost me very little.

The last lot I acquired is a set of Titan socket firmers. About 10 years ago, I picked up a single amongst some other rusty treasures, & because I have a fondness for socket chisels, decided to try & make up a 'set' in the main 1/4" increments from 1/4" to 1 1/4", which I duly did over a few ensuing years. I now use these chisels a lot, & don't know why it took me so long to get them!

So if you are thinking of having a second set of chisels, I think I can make a good case for a set of firmers. These are the ones to reach for when heavy-duty pounding is called for. A decent firmer can double as a sash mortise chisel & give almost as good performance, so as well as heavy work, they will double as mortise chisels. The good news is that you don't have to buy new, you can often pick up decent old firmers for very little. There were lots of them around, & they don't seem to be as popular as BEs, so the prices are often very reasonable.

So be warned, chisels can be as addictive as any other tool.... :U

Cheers,

Ian, I have been looking at some paring chisels recently. I have my BE at 25 degrees and the idea of something a bit narrower appeals to me. I have some other tools I actually need rather than want so they will have to wait. But my plan is to get a few paring chisels and some dedicated dovetailing chisels. The edges on the Narex are thinish and better than what I had but something even thinner and ground narrower would be better. You suggest shorter also. (I like the careful way you have outlined a set of rational reasons for what is plainly a mental illness.)

Mortising with dedicated mortising chisels makes life much easier. I can tell you that few of the schools use them to teach children, who then go away wondering why it is so hard.


There is another reason that your post did not list. Well made chisels and planes have an aesthetic beauty. I made a bit of a tool cabinet to store the tools I commonly use close to the bench. This is useful and the tools are good to use. But they also just look plain nice, even the Narex, even though the handles are made of Rhino dung.

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Originally Posted by chook

... I have been looking at some paring chisels recently. I have my BE at 25 degrees and the idea of something a bit narrower appeals to me....

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The Sorby patternmakers' chisels are nice for paring, but at around $80 a pop, not cheap! If you keep your eyes peeled at flea markets, you might get lucky..

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Originally Posted by chook

...I like the careful way you have outlined a set of rational reasons for what is plainly a mental illness.....

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Me? Mental? Afflicted with a bit of a tool fetish? Dunno what you're talking about, man! It's all under control, I tell you! :U

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Originally Posted by chook

......There is another reason that your post did not list. Well made chisels and planes have an aesthetic beauty.... .

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Well, now you mention it, that's one of the (non-rational) reasons for re-handling my LNs. Just could not love those bland Hornbeam handles they came with. They also look better set against some highly figured Camphor Laurel... :D Attachment 315159

Don't worry - the Camphor was from an off-cut that is badly checked & scabby underneath, otherwise it would have formed part of a panelled door or fancy box.......

Cheers,

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Originally Posted by chook

But they also just look plain nice, even the Narex, even though the handles are made of Rhino dung.

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With rhino poaching being what it is, I'm sure rhino dung costs more than whatever it is Narex use for handles.

I've started down the slippery slope of chisel accumulation, to the point where I'm eyeing a lovely set of Bergs on ebay, that I can neither justify nor really afford, but am tempted to throw in a bid in spite of my best judgement. Hopefully someone with a better exchange rate will put them firmly out of my reach :)

In addition to liking the look of chisels, I enjoy picking them up and fondlinghandling them. Good tools are very tactile for me.