Jet 310 combo machine not running at full power

Hi folks,

Finally getting back into the workshop and fired up my combo. It took around 30 seconds to get running and really struggled to get up to speed. When I disengage the rollers it runs better, but as soon as they're back on it grinds to a halt and cuts out.

I opened it up a bit to check. The rubber pulleys don't appear to be slipping so I don't think it's them. The chain is pretty clean and doesn't seem to have much gunk on it, so don't think it's that either.

It's still under warranty but hell if I can get it back to Carbatec to check it out. Any ideas on what I can explore to try and figure this out?

Cheers,
Af.

The first thing that comes to mind is bearing trouble. Try disconnecting all the drive belts and chains and see if everything spins freely by hand.
I might be able to come for a drive one Sunday and have a look if you want.

Afroboy,

Provided you bought the machine from Carbatec (and not from one of the old Jet Dealers who were around before Carbatec took over the Jet dealership), and it's still under warranty, I'd definitely contact Carbatec re a warranty claim. On a piece of equipment that big, you should argue that it is unreasonable for Carbatec to require you to send the machine back to Carbatec for a warranty repair, and that for larger machinery, Carbatec should be prepared to repair on-site.

I have had to make two warranty claims on bigger machinery with Carbatec, and in each case I argued that I was too far from Brisbane (120 Km) for Carbatec to expect me to bring the machine back to them for repair. In one case, it was obvious that the smoke had leaked out of the electric motor, so they sent me a replacement motor and they paid the freight. They asked me if I'd drop the faulty motor off at Carbatec next time I was in Brisbane.

The other time I had to make a warranty claim against Carbatec, it wasn't obvious what was causing the problem, except that it was probably an electrical problem. They authorised a local Electrician to look at the machine (at Carbatec's cost). The electrician identified a faulty NVR On/Off Switch, which Carbatec replaced.

In your case, with the motor seeming to be suddenly low on power, I'd suspect that you have one or more dodgy capacitors on the motor. If you can't test the capacitors yourself, then a local electrician should be able to. If you can get an electrician to test the capacitors and prove that one or more are stuffed, then Carbatec will probably send you the warranty replacements. Unless you have some relevant electrical qualifications, it would be best and safest to get the Electrician to install the new capacitors.

You're not that far from Melbourne, so If you really do have to return the machine to Carbatec for warranty repair, then it's an easy enough one man job to lift it onto a box trailer using an endless chain and a few lifting straps. If you can get a hold of a pallet to put the machine on when it's on the trailer, it will make it much easier for Carbatec to get it off the trailer once you get to Melbourne.

Regards,

RoyG

Thank you both for the advice.

I just spent a bit of time on it now. Found the two capacitors and tested them (as best I know how). They both charged up and held at 60uF & 50uF. When I tested for resistance I expected them to jump up then come back down but they just kept climbing so I don't know what's going on there. I have a digital multimeter so if someone can guide me through some better testing, I'd be much appreciative.

Next I'll try to take the chain off and see if everything spins freely. When I fired it up today it was sluggish both with the rollers engaged and without so I suspect it has more to do with the motor than anything else.

Once I figure out what's likely to be wrong I'll definitely contact Carbatec to see what they can do. I have no transport abilities to get it out to them aside from forking out a heap of money hiring things.

Cheers,
Af.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Afro Boy

Thank you both for the advice.

I just spent a bit of time on it now. Found the two capacitors and tested them (as best I know how). They both charged up and held at 60uF & 50uF. When I tested for resistance I expected them to jump up then come back down but they just kept climbing so I don't know what's going on there. I have a digital multimeter so if someone can guide me through some better testing, I'd be much appreciative.

Cheers,
Af.

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Af.

To test the capacitors you'll need to disconnect at least one lead from each capacitor to isolate the capacitors from the circuit.

I might be telling you something you already know, but:

CAUTION - All healthy capacitors store an electrical charge after use. The large capacitors used on that motor, if they still have a charge on them, and you accidentally touch your fingers across the terminals, or you touch between a terminal and ground, you'll likely get a nasty electrical shock as the capacitor discharges through you. You need to safely discharge the capacitors before working on them!

The safe way to discharge the capacitors is to short the terminals with a 20 KOhm 5 watt resistor for about five seconds.

Some people simply short the capacitors terminals using a screw driver or similar tool. Simply short circuiting the capacitors is not recommended as you can get a nasty spark that may damage the terminals, and the rapid discharge caused by short circuiting the capacitor can damage the capacitor internally, thus rendering it useless, when it was previously OK.

Note: I just had a look at my Fluke Digital Multimeter, and another cheapie Jaycar supplied meter. Both meters have a setting on the rotary switch marked capacitor discharge. This setting doesn't take any measurements - all this setting does is to provide a safe way to discharge a capacitor. If your digital multimeter has such a facility, use it.

The capacitors on that motor should have their value printed on the side of them. The value you get testing the capacitors using the capacitance setting on your digital multimeter should be fairly close to that measured by your Digital Multimeter. The testing of the capacitors must be done with the capacitor discharged. Any residual charge on good quality Digital Multimeters will prevent an accurate reading, and on some cheapie digital multimeters any residual charge in the capacitors can damage the multimeter.

If in doubt, ask your local sparky to test the capacitors for you.

Thanks Roy. I was aware of that, but it's a very good reminder to any others following this thread in the future.

I'm going to get an electrical friend to test them for me this week, but my feeling so far is that they're both working fine. I think the reason the resistance didn't drop is because the multimeter will take a very long time to charge them up before they discharge.

The two capacitors are:

CBB60
60uF and 50uF
450v

Gotta run but will try and remove that chain and check the other things tomorrow night.

Cheers,
Af.

Here's the latest ...

Managed to get the main belt off (between the motor and the knife head). I ran the motor on it's own for a few seconds and it fired up pretty fast but I don't feel that it got to its highest speed.

My gut is that it's the capacitors as everything else spins freely when not chained up. Will be calling Carbatec in the morning to see what they can do for me.

Cheers,
Af.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Afro Boy

Managed to get the main belt off (between the motor and the knife head). I ran the motor on it's own for a few seconds and it fired up pretty fast but I don't feel that it got to its highest speed..

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It will sound a lot quieter with the knife head disconnected and sometimes this translates to seeming slower.

This is where an eBay $20 laser tacho comes in very handy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BobL

This is where an eBay $20 laser tacho comes in very handy.

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No no NOOOOOO! Not another gadget purchase. You have to stop doing this to me. My nail finder (read hand held metal detector) arrived yesterday. The little woman already thinks I am addicted to gadgets. Oh wait! :~

Or $12.73. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hot-Sell-...item25ac830307

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yanis

Or $12.73. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hot-Sell-...item25ac830307

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That;s the one - except mine has the on button in the middle and recessed into the side. This makes it a PITA to turn on. The switch is a "works when held button" which saves the battery. Having the ON button on the edge of the side like that will make it a bit easier to use.

I purchase mine 7-8 years ago and it still has the same battery it came with. Mine cost me $39 and I noted the prices have dropped slowly over that time,
It's almost ridiculous that a laser based measurement device only costs that much - just shows you what volume does for production costs.

Time for an update. I tested the capacitors and they appeared fine. Rollers were all moving smoothly, so it wasn't them. This lead to the motor being the most likely issue.

Contacted Carbatec and they put me in touch with their motor electrician guy. He was extremely helpful. They got a new one shipped down from Brisbane and the Carbatec guy came down today to replace it.

Was a fair job as it's pretty damned heavy but it's all done now and working nicely once again. :)

Cheers,
Af.