Woe is me - too much choice? Too much quantity over quality perhaps!?

I have spent the last month trawling these forums trying to work out how to spend my $6800 tool budget after finally getting my workshop off the drawing board after 5 years of waiting!

Its not that big at 4.6m x 9m x 2.7m high, but its a great success. I am still waiting on final permit approval today or tomorrow, so I am very nervous :no: After that its 6-8 weeks of waiting, 4 weeks for the materials, (during which time the slab gets laid) and the remaining 2-4 weeks for the builders to one day turn up to build it!

But I have started thinking that its all a bit too hard! There are so many choices, how I can I be sure I won't make the wrong decision? Its so much money and its not like the opportunity is going to come along any time soon to do it over if you screw it up!

It would be so nice if I could just be decisive and say, I'll have the CTH110L, TS12R or the MBS300 ( the 3 models I am looking at by the way :roll:) and be done with it.

The same goes for the bandsaw, jeez, there are so many to choose from, and so many chances to royally regret my decision. I have read many forum posts on the topic of bandsaws, and there are many conflicting stories, and it all gets very confusing. I keep wondering whether I should not just spend that little extra, get the jet, even if it it does have 6" of resaw only, oh but you could spend another $100 on a riser, but will it be strong enough then - damn it, so much to weigh up, I think I am going to go crazy with all this choosing and decisions and umming and ahhing!

How long on average does a person spend thinking and comparing and "kicking the tires" on a piece of equipment such as a table saw or bandsaw before they take the plunge.

How many of you have regretted not taking longer?

Does any of what I have said sound familiar or is it truly the ramblings of someone who has spent too long in the sun :U

Rambling over, thanks for letting me vent.

I think you are just suffering from "paralysis by analysis":rolleyes:

4 yrs ago I spent $3500 at leda.

Then I discovered this forum.:D

The only tools I woud change is the contractor saw to a panel saw, the bandsaw 14" to a 24" and perhaps I woulden't have bought the morticer, alhtough it was very handy in making the window frames, sashes and doors for my house extension.

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Originally Posted by pellcorp

How many of you have regretted not taking longer?

Does any of what I have said sound familiar or is it truly the ramblings of someone who has spent too long in the sun :U

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The risk of a wrong decision is preferable to the terror of indecision.
Maimonides

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Originally Posted by pellcorp

......Does any of what I have said sound familiar or is it truly the ramblings of someone who has spent too long in the sun :U

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Well, Pellcorp, having a fistfull of $$$s to splurge in one hit doesn't sound familiar to me! But your dilemma about which tools to get is a familiar one. The sort of questions you're asking come up frequently, and they are hard to answer satisfactorily. First off, since everyone does different stuff, & has different preferences of the way to go about it, you get lots of conflicting advice - that's familiar. On the other hand, if I'd been able to afford a whole lot of tools & machines when I started out, I know (now) I would have bought things I would have hardly ever used. On the other hand, I might have bought a really decent tablesaw, for example, & not had to make do with an inferior one for so long.... Yep - it all sounds familiar! :U

While you can profit by listening to other people's opinions, in the end, only you can decide what you need, and that decision can only be based on what you want to make & how you want to make it. You might decide your flair is for large items of furniture, which will require a different approach to the bloke who's making intricate little boxes. I think the slow route to acquiring a shedfull of tools offers the better, if sometimes frustrating journey. Just get stuck into the projects, and acquire what tools you really need to complete them. Put most of your cash into a fixed-term deposit, so that by the time you can spend it, you'll have a much better idea of what you want AND you'll have a bit more to spend on it... :;
Just my 2c,
Cheers,

Must say i can sympathise big time Pell as i'm in similar mode at the moment. It does run one into paralysis, often mind you not from inability to decide but from inability to access trustworthy information.

Every maker claims their stuff is best and twists the data, and most users figure what they bought is best.....

It's worsened by the fact to my mind that most reviewers (a) pull their punches, and (b) anyway tend to write largely in cliches.

One view i've taken is that it's such a competitve market that by and large (at least in established brands) you get what you pay for. There's a lot of stuff around at the lower end that is to varying degrees highly compromised by the need to save money in manufacturing. So i try to place stuff in the range from DIY junk through DIY decent to professional budget, to professional top end.

Can i be the only one that gets pi***d off at the junk often sold out of the hardware chains to unsuspecting and unknowing DIYers that buy only on price?????

It's often hard to tell from reviews where machines fit in this range - testers do a few stock things and say it's OK. Lurking in the background is the 'for the price' sentiment, but it's rarely ever clear with the result that all sorts of stuff gets similar stuff said about it. For example - i suspect a fabricated chassis bandssaw is not at all the same deal as a solid cast iron model. Yet the nominal specs e.g. 12 inch capapcity, 2 hp or whatever may be very similar.

There's a qualitative aspect to quality, precision and performance that's very hard to capture with numbers, or in writing. Yet it makes all the difference.....

One issue i'm having to work hard on is requirements. What exactly (since i'm developing a business) am i gearing up for? What capacities and capablity will the work i'm hoping to do require? Where will the market take me?

It seems wise to me to buy kit with a decent resale value. I recently sold my 10 year Robland combo, got a very good price (about 60% of current new) and could have sold several more....

Another issue is that of methods - there's often quite a few ways of completing tasks. What we read again does not say much about the limits of approaches. For example - a spindle moulder does some things far better than a router table, and vice versa. But where are the limits?

Most of us have a familiar favourite way which may be the result of prejudices and what we happen to have as much as fact.....

One principle to minimise that risk i've heard is to buy only as you need it. But that's not so easy if kit is not available off the shelf locally, and entails lead time. And anyway - you'd really need to try stuff for a period to really know.

Against that my sense is that you have to gear up accordingly if you want to work to a standard - i suspect that if you don't think that way it'll drive eveything onwards from the types of jobs you take on.

It's tough to get out of the mire. The fact is that a point comes where you have to plunk your money down. I'm quite sure that if i knew now what i'll know in a year i'd do quite a lot differently.

Maybe there's no easy answer.....

Maybe it's a vagary of our privileged times that we find ourselves in this sort of position. Years ago stuff seems to have been so expensive that to build up a shop was the work of a lifetime. You started with what you could earn a crust from. Some today will seek to set up a shop in one go, and that based on published information.

Maybe too that's why there's no substitute for lots of exerience, especially the sort that exposes one to the ways lots of different people work.....

Just playing with some thoughts.

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Originally Posted by pellcorp

I have read many forum posts on the topic of (insert tool/machine here) and there are many conflicting stories, and it all gets very confusing.

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It’s like 10 movie reviewers, 3 will praise a movie, 3 will can it and 4 will have mixed opinions. Who is right and who is wrong? I have my favourite 3 or 4 who have similar tastes to mine so I value their opinions first.

Same should apply here. Everyone has their favourite posters for work, tools and machines, so you should limit your opinions from members, both intermediate (who have just gone through what you are now) and experienced (who have been their done that, and can throw in a little hindsight) then out of all who have replied to your threads on this subject, those who you can identify with similar ideas and style of work to yourself, do a little background search on them, pick 3 or 4 who you like, and average out their good/bad recommendations and go from their. You have been given so much information it should be just a matter of sorting it out.

Hi,

It does sound like I am wining too much about having so much money to spend doesn't it!

Apologies for that, perhaps a little bit of history might explain - most of the money is from an inheritance from my grandfather who was a wood craftsman. So I feel like I really need to be sure of what I am buying otherwise I am wasting very much a one time thing. Even if later I had more money to spend it would not mean the same thing.

Cheers
Jason

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Originally Posted by pellcorp

Hi,

It does sound like I am wining too much about having so much money to spend doesn't it!

Apologies for that, perhaps a little bit of history might explain - most of the money is from an inheritance from my grandfather who was a wood craftsman. So I feel like I really need to be sure of what I am buying otherwise I am wasting very much a one time thing. Even if later I had more money to spend it would not mean the same thing.

Cheers
Jason

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I didn't see it as whining - just trying hard to make sense of a lot of data, as Lignum says. We are definitely spoilt for choice, and have little real information (as opposed to data) on which to make our choices. As Lig. also says, experience is the most valuable asset when making decisions - other people's can be very helpful, but your own is the best - if you want to honour grandad's memory, hang onto most of the cash for a bit & just start making things. Soon enough, you'll have the knowledge, and the means, to make some really good decisions...
:U

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Woe is me - too much choice? Too much quantity over quality perhaps!?

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Hi Pellcorp

Quality is what you have left after you have forgotten the price. Remember quality is innate - its not bells and whistles. To use the analogy of the car industry, a Korean car may have all the electronic gizmos of a German car, but a Doowoo will never be a Mercedes. The doors do not go ker-lunk!

Professional craftsmen tend to use high quality tools, often expensive ones, and this is after they have spent twenty years mastering the use of those tools. Us amateurs do not have that luxury of time to master so we need all the help we can get. We do not need poor tools white anting our efforts.

I think there is excellent advice above, except that I would question the wisdom of buying large tools as needed. There is a lead time with these machines. You have to order them then wait for delivery - next day, or three months? - install and commission it, refine all adjustments and then learn how to use it proficiently before tackling a major job. Better to learn on and stuff up some radiata rather than some figured cedar.

Wish I had sat down and thought things out rather than buying as needed and/or when the chains had a special too good to miss....

Cheers

Graeme

I want to make furniture (bookshelves, coffee tables, etc). So my thinking is my first purchase would have to be a cabinet table saw, and based on one of the commonly agreed pieces of advice - the best I can afford - because you get what you pay for. Thus my budget for the table saw has been increased to $3000 max. I figure its the power tool I will probably use the most, apart from the router - I already have the big triton and a MDF table (sorry did not build it myself :-), so thats covered!

If I purchase a tablesaw first up, I can then see that there are several other tools that would be almost essentials as well:

A jointer and thicknesser are essential to avoid paying ridiculous prices for dresses timber.

A dust collector is essential to avoid respiratory ailments.

So the drill press and bandsaw are the tools I could probably delay a bit.

I appreciate all your comments very much.

Its fantastic to have so many experienced wood workers providing all us newbies with help.

It always reminds me of plato's cave! All us newbies are still staring at the wall, and you guys come back down to show us the way out :D

I know I try to do the same in my profession - software development.

Cheers
Jason

Then again, every time I watch a wood working programme, I usually hear "we'll do that on the band saw", and I swore when I started this that I would not put up with that frustration anymore. So I guess thats part of the reason why I wanted to purchase the bandsaw straight up too.

Add to that:
Resaw capabilities can again save money at the lumber yard
Making templates for routing would be a god send.
Zero clearance inserts - can't think how you would do that without a bandsaw and a straight bit on a router - at least not with my limited free hand ability on a jigsaw!

So you see I am back to where I started, I can't see that waiting to buy these items would be useful in my case.

I think probably the Drill Press can wait, as can additional items like a new mitre guage, or really expensive blades. But the basic equipment I think I am going to have to buy together to avoid frustration.

Thanks again, I actually think this thread and the others I have been asking questions on are starting to clear my thinking a lot.

I already decided to forget the Jet, and get a cheaper bandsaw, what I want it for does not warrant a beast and I would prefer to spend a lot on the table saw which in my opinion will be the centre of my workshop.

I loved my triton so much, was quite sad to watch it go, but I am so looking forward to getting my new beast.

Whats hilarious to me though, is that if my grandfather were still here (and lets forget the "grandfather paradox" of if he were, I would not be able to buy any of this stuff), he would probably have told me I don't need a table saw, a good hand saw or a circular saw with straight edge will do you fine - thanks Pa! :-) He would have also suggested to me you don't need a jointer or a bloody thicknesser either, a good hand plane will do the job. I have no doubt it would, but not before my patience would run out :-

Thanks for your patience and assistance, I think I am closer to a decision, and will certainly take the time to read through all the responses you have provided so far.

Cheers
Jason

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Originally Posted by pellcorp

and will certainly take the time to read through all the responses you have provided so far.

Cheers
Jason

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When you do, cut and paste (just the tech bits and not chit chat) into sub categories in Word. IE: Saws, Jointers, good quality V quantity etc, maybe highlight blue text for amature/hobbiest and black for experienced woodworkers, so you don’t get all muddled up. That should make it so much easier to come up with a clearer decision.

Pellcorp,

My recent experience and regrets at setting up a home workshop was to purchase:
1. Mortiser (I knew nothing then and was fascinated at being able to drill square holes. It is used sparingly, you'll see why shortly)
2. Jet Supersaw (great saw, but can't do dadoes. this would have been a good feature)
3. Carbatec 17" bandsaw, absoluteltly essential for resawing, sawing small pieces, curved sawing and cutting plastic and aluminium.(No regrets)
4. Scheppach 10" planar thicknesser. (A very good machine but have since bought a Carbatec 8" jointer and wished I had a 15" thicknesser. AAAAARAGH)
5. 2 Triton routers (one for self made router table and one for hand held use (no regrets)
6. Pedestal drill (I use it all the time and could not be without it) no regrets
7. Linisher small belt and 12 " wheel (Used sparingly)
8. Open Flat bed sander: the abilty to sand flat panels seemed necessary, but has yet to be really tested in a large campaign. (A luxury that is not required with a good jointer and thicknesser.)
9. Festool Domino This really tested the wallet ,but it is the most amazing tool and everything Lignin says about it is true ...and more (Hence the dust gathering mortiser).
10 Portable 1.5 HP dusty
11 Almost every machine in on wheels, either built in or on a wheeled base.

Now I am growing my handtools with:
Planes: Old fettled planes,
New from Lie Nielsen and Veritas,
Chisels: Old refurbished chisels (some from my great grandfather)
New from Harold and Saxon, Lie Nielsen and Blue Spruce tools

I have just finished a large lockable tool cabinet to store them in

I am on my 4th generation sharpening system in 3 years and am still learning here.

So it is a never ending quest. Beware!

And the cars do not have a garage to stay in, much to SWMBO's disgust.

Chris

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Originally Posted by Ellemcbeast

9. Festool Domino This really tested the wallet ,but it is the most amazing tool and everything Lignum says about it is true ...and more (Hence the dust gathering mortiser).

Chris

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I would have loved to suggest one for him as it is essential and does everything except the washing up, but i would have copped a lot of flack for it:-