costs to budget for

Hi,

Here's one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions....

I am in the planning stages of (hoping to) build a boat. I've built model ships for years (scratchbuilt out of wood) and now that my workshop is nearly sorted and most of our home renovations are being completed, I'd like to look at building a "real" boat as a longer-term project.

Plans I am looking at are for a couple of different 15 - 22 foot inboard power boats, plywood or strip planked, eg like the old Chris-craft.

Apart from a motor (not cheap based on a few searches I've done!), what other 'ancillary' costs should I plan for - I assume I have ot get it registered, have a marine/engineer inspection before launching, electronic equipment, etc.

Has anyone completed a project like this, and have any idea on costs I may have to add to the wood/fittings/tools budget? Or links to sites where I might find some guidance.

Thanks in advance,

Darren
Melbourne

Darren,

I'm only half joking when I say: Go through the materials list in detail and price it, work out how much your forms and temporary moulds are going to cost, what tools you need, the glue etc etc etc, then when you have it EXACTLY precisely covered with every contingency you can think of included.

DOUBLE IT!

Don't forget sandpaper and other consumables like safety gear, gloves, overalls etc, they really add up over a sizeable project.

Insurance can also get interesting, I usually get round that by exploiting the difference between "home built" and my very own non-existent except for the purpose of insurance applications "Mountain Creek Boatworx" - home built is uninsurable, but make up a name that sounds like a boatbuilder and no-one questions same. :confused: :confused:

After the cost of construction, registration etc is not of any consequence.

Regards,

P (and dont' forget to keep posting progress shots!) :D

The term **hysterical laughter** springs to mind.

No, I have NOT priced any of the boats I've built ... it's too darned scary. And it depends a lot on what quality you are building to. Quality costs and sometimes, that quality is in longevity, not looks (eg paint).

Materials. Do you own table saw and thicknesser?
The difference in cost between paying the timber yard to turn a rough plank of oregon into a small, neat stick and buying the plank then doing it yourself is rather steep.

But here's one way of guestimating it. Decide on roughly the boat you want, or exactly the boat if appropriate. Then go to someone like BoatCraft Pacific and price a kit. The kits a lot of shops provide contain EVERYTHING - rigging, rubber gloves, tongue depressors, etc. For example, if you want to built a David Payne 6m MotorCruiser, but can't afford (over time) to buy BoatCraft Pacific's kit, you probably can't afford to build the boat. Duckflats have most of their designs costed in total ... they just keep good records of what they've built and look up the last one when you ask. WARNING - take brave pills before doing this.

However, the smart move, and the one most boat builders employ, certainly the sane ones like Midge ... and the nutters like myself, is - Do your design search. Fall in love with a boat. Buy the plans. Buy some timber ... and start. A half completed hull in the shed is wonderful incentive to find the money to buy that next bag of epoxy powder or stick of timber. (guess how I know that one).

Buy tools AS YOU NEED THEM. Buying ahead leads to the danger of spending all your money on that sander that you'll need after you've cut up this sheet of ply ... only you can no longer afford the jigsaw to cut up the ply (guess how I know this one).

And the best money you can spend is to do a boat building course - but that's whole 'nother thread.

Cheers
Richard
using dangerous tools to shape toxic materials into a craft that can sink and drown me :D

Something that is easily overlooked is the price of frames. The temporary frames that you build your boat around. The David Payne 6m Motor Cruiser that we built at TAFE last year, had 3/4" chipboard frames every 500mm. That's twelve frames. With a boat that beamy, we were getting one frame out of each sheet of chipboard :eek:

Then there was the building frame. We made ours out of 5" angle iron (I think, it was bloody thick too). Expensive. And the tension in the boards (it was a lapstrake boat) was enough to lift the ends of the frames about 1/2" off the floor. Scary stuff. :D

That's where doing a boat building course is good - you get to make all the mistakes and make all the discoveries on someone else's boat. :D Thanks to the sheer size of these things, and the forces involved, it is nothing like model building. The garboards on that 6m boat were 3/4" ply, over a foot wide and in the last six feet, we had to twist them nearly 90 degrees. :eek:

Darren, paying for the stuff is not only the most disagreeable part of the whole exercise, it's the least important (if only more women understood that).

The most important part, of course, is standing back and doing the 'wow I made that' thing. I love that part of it. :D :D

Cheers
Richard

Yeah, me again (shutup you lot ;) )

Don't let my posts put you off. If reality is scary, ignore it :D . Mate, I can't really afford to build Redback (8 ft tender) and my Yellowtail (14 ft daysailer), yet when I've finished the Yellowtail, I'll be looking at something like a Cape Henry 21.

This is boat building - sanity just gets in the way of getting the job done. Unless you want the thing in the water this summer, you CAN build anything you want because over time, you will find the materials and learn the skill to do it.

Cheers
Richard

Richard of course you are absolutely correct with everything you have said.

Once I did the numbers on a 30ft cat, and decided to have it built to lock up stage. The builder told me to "bite off more than I could chew then chew like hell".... so I did!

The kids won't let me sell the Goat Island Skiff (now 10 years old) because of the memories they had during the process. We weren't exactly broke, but the trailer running gear came for free from a salvaged 6 x4, and the frame was a pair of old roof purlins ($40.00) which I paid off @ $10.00 a week..... we just shake our head now and wonder what the drama was, but it's all part of the adventure.

If you build a boat you can afford, you are missing out on part of the ride!

Cheers,

P

Hi,

Thanks Richard and BitingMidge. I'm not discouraged, as I knew it would cost a lot (and a lot more than I planned!). I've never let reality or money get in the way of a good idea!

This is to be a longer-term project - I'll probably start with a kayak to practice on, and I want one of them anyway. Just when it's costing a fortune and I'm spending all night in the shed I need to be careful not to tell SWMBO "this is just the practice one!"

The couple of plans I have in mind - for small runabouts - aren't overly complex but big enough to be worthwhile (and will fit in the garage during construction). I will cut and mill my own timber form rough blanks to keep the cost down - I need a thicknesser but have most ofhter power tools already, and plenty of hand tools and will add to them as I need it.

So once the shed is cleared I'll get into the strip-built kayak and put up some progress pics, then I can move onto the 'real thing'. No rush, and I figure that at my age I should be done before I kick the bucket!

Thanks again - any recommendations for Australian-based plans or Melbourne-based suppliers will always be welcome!

Regards,
Darren

Sounds like you're demented enough to succeed.

Aussie plans?
David Payne - he also does a nice line in canoes and his work it top notch. You can email him but he doesn't have a web site. I can recommend his plans having built two of his Yellowtails, his 6M Motor Cruiser and watched his ski boat go together, all through my TAFE course. One of those Yellowtails is the one shown in my avatar and is sitting in my shed waiting to be finished.

Michael Storer has some nice plans for simpler stuff and he's in Adelaide.
Look here - http://storerboatplans.bigstep.com/

Duck Flats here in Adelaide have a wide range of plans but they are expensive, exclusive and opinions on them are polarised. However, everyone agrees that they do know their stuff - they just want you to do it 'their' way.

As for Melbourne. Haven't got a clue. Don't you blokes still fit wheels to your boats and carry a shovel in case you get bogged in the Yarra? :D

Then there's the New Zealanders - a heap of them but notably John Welsford (talk to me off list) and Hartley.

Aaaaannnnnnnndddddd then :D
seriously, don't overlook Iain Oughtred's designs (see the Duck Flats site for a selection). He designs brilliant boats of all types and draws excellent plans (can't say that for some of the others). His plans are available everywhere but you are best served buying directly from him (via snail mail) as you get the latest drawings (instead of a copy of an earlier version), you quite often get some comments about the design and plans for it and if you are really lucky, you get a preview of what's about to come out. Also, he gets all the money rather than a intermediary taking some, and I don't believe he's all that rich. Nice bloke incidentally.

Man, the world is full of boat designers, good boat designers. You can go mad making the choice - look at me! :eek:

And if you find sort of what you want, many designers will modify the design for you or already have the modification on file - a read through the Selway Fisher site will show you what I mean. I've dealt with them and they are very helpful and happy to talk, but they aren't alone in that, not by a long chalk.

Cheers
Richard

Gdy Darren,

I am part of the demented crowd ;) and have just started building a 17 ft stich and glue charpie. Those guys are spot on with their comments about cost, but boat building is like life: the journey is most important than the destination . Midge is spot on about supply, Boatcraft are a good mob to deal with and their prices are competitive. Post pics when you start.

Cheers

Ludo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daddles

Aussie plans?
David Payne - he also does a nice line in canoes and his work it top notch. You can email him but he doesn't have a web site. I can recommend his plans having built two of his Yellowtails, his 6M Motor Cruiser and watched his ski boat go together, all through my TAFE course. One of those Yellowtails is the one shown in my avatar and is sitting in my shed waiting to be finished.

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David does have a website : www.payneyachts.com
I can wholeheartedly recommend his designs. well drawn, thoroughly researched, most with full sized patterns and if you follow them closely, it all goes together without any dramas. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt!
Cheers,
Graeme

Thanks for that Graeme. The site must be new, even though the copyright is 2004. At first glance, it looks good too.

Goody, goody, goody. I'm off for a browse.

Cheers
Richard