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Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day all, long time listener first time caller here. I purchased the plans for the GIS about a year ago, but have been unable to start thus far due to building a new house, work, second child etc. Anyway that ended today as I commenced work on my centreboard, and practised scarfing on my triton workbench (6:1 [10º] for staves etc). I'm using decking cedar (unsure of variety, sold as real cedar) at the moment, it looks a lot like yellow cedar(~30-40 grains to the inch) has a specific gravity of 420 kg m^3 (measured) a bit heavy I know but if I don't like it I can always replace it later. I'll probably use this timber to replace the Oregon in the plans, and paulownia instead of wrc (I've gotta order some from whitewood :) ).
I intend building all the extra bits(board, rudder, masts and spars) prior to commencing hull work.
Regards Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
Here are some photos of my work thus far.
The staves all lined up with glue (purbond)
Attachment 246728
Clamping set up
Attachment 246729
Weight on top to keep it all straight(about 100 kg)
Attachment 246730
#Note I've not yet glued in the leading and trailing edges (Tassie oak) yet as I stuffed up a cut and had to scarf up a length. I'll fit them once the scarf has gone off (and when I've cooled down:beer:)
Dan
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Welcome aboard Dan!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Capturethebeer
I intend building all the extra bits(board, rudder, masts and spars) prior to commencing hull work.
I took this approach and it worked well for me. It allows you to practice on small bits. You can also get multiple things accomplished simultaneously once your momentum is going. Then, as you start epoxy coating the large parts of the hull, you've got all these small assemblies available to make the most efficient use of the goo.
Best of luck to you!
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western yawl
Hi Dan
Good choice
Another Goat for the West.
Have you got your ply yet?
Where are you sourcing your Paulowina?
Im in White Gum Valley.
Wayne Poulsen
"Billy Goat"
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Glad to hear another yawl is being built. GIR was the first yawl GIS to be finished, but Clint Chase has made some very good improvements to the mast steps so be sure to check the latest on his website.
Goat Island Skiff - Maine Boatbuilder + Repairer Wood + Plywood Boats Oarmakers Birdsmouth Mast + Sparmakers Foils Boat Plans + Kits
My build pics are here:
Flickr: Texas GIS' Photostream
We built all the little bits first to get use to the epoxy, metric units and some new wood working tools. Have fun and keep us posted with lots of pictures.
Texas GIS
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Back again I hope everyone had a merry Christmas.
Well the cb blank is glued up but my clean up efforts ground to a halt when my belt sander shredded an intermediate drive gear (the screw holding the shaft in failed). I'll probably get stuck in tomorrow with my 1/4 sheet to remove the excess purbond and square up a bit before routing the blank (ala Simon Lew).
Good to hear about another Western Australian goat Wayne.
I'm planning on getting the paulownia from whitewood over east, that is unless you know of a supplier here in WA. For plywood I'll be probably going to Boating Hardware in O'Connor on Carrington Street. Though last time I went there the guy behind the counter seemed aghast that I didn't want to build a Sabre.
I've just moved to Atwell so I'm in process of turning a construction site into a home (something the wife insists is a higher priority than a GIS) :p
Thanks for the links on the yawl, John. I've had a good look at it and even if I don't use it all the time it'd be nice to have the option.
Cheers all I should hopefully have some nice pics of a shaped board tomorrow.
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Back again with more photos.
I didn't end up routing the blank today, instead I made a jig to shape the foil as per the Duckworks http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/...oils/index.htmarticle. Instead of messing about with trig I simply used a compass to apply the depth offset for the router(13mm) to the template in the plans. I transcribed an arc of 13mm to multiple points along the planned template and then faired the edge.
Attachment 247109
I then shaped it using an improvised router table. MacGuyver eat your heart out. (Turns out this was a bad idea)
Attachment 247110
I duplicated the pattern using a finishing bit and then glued them together with spacing blocks.
Attachment 247111
I'll give the jig a shot tomorrow. Here's hoping it all goes smoothly.
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Well things didn't go as smoothly as I hoped. A 13mm offset didn't provide enough meat on the jig to prevent flexing so the router ended up digging in too much.
Attachment 247194
So I decided the designer must have known what he was talking about and I went back to the original method.
Luckily the damaged section of board is in an area to be cut out so it'll all work out nicely.
Attachment 247195
I've had to take a break due to a small injury, but hopefully I'll be able to crack on tomorrow.
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
I finished shaping the centreboard today using the method in the plans. It went smoothly for the most part however there are a few divots that need filling. I was thinking of using ordinary plastic wood filler instead of an epoxy fairing compound, however I'm not sure how it'll work with epoxy later on. Any ideas?
The board came out at a weight of 3.7kg so it should come out at about 4.5kg after fibreglassing (200gsm cloth 2 layers), is this in the ballpark?
And now the photos.
The finished board.
Attachment 247341
Torture board, we'll put that name to the test.
Attachment 247342
You win this time router.
Attachment 247343
Until next time
Dan out.
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Hi Dan,
The wood filler won't help the divot IN YOUR FINGER!
The downside of commercial wood fillers is often they are not formulated with a truly wet environment in mind. Many swell in an amorphous and unwoodlike way - usually because they are permeable and the filler used is cotton or wood fibres.
That said ... after the glassing there will not be much chance of water getting through - so won't be a problem. I can't remember - is it two full layers of glass or just a band of extra where the board exits the centrecase?
MIK
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day MIK
Maybe epoxy then for the finger (good gap filling properties) :D
I'm pretty sure the plans specify 2 layers of cloth ~200gsm, so I'll go have a look at what is available filler wise at my local hardware store. Nothing oil based though so the epoxy will have a good surface to adhere to. Maybe automotive stuff :screwy:
After all I'll be painting the board so I don't care what it looks like provided it's smooth and appropriately shaped. I figure it'll be easier to do this before the epoxy goes on.
Cheers Dan
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use an epoxy filler, wood filler shrinks and will not last (polyester resin), as it doesn't adhere to the timber very well,.
Epoxy bonds better and is stronger.
watch power tools they bite when you least expect them to, and the more you use them the more you forget that they can bite.
Been there done that (Angle grinder 3 stitches), sharpening an axe 3stitches.
Jeff
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
Unfortunately Jeff I got your post too late. I've already filled the divots etc with Agnews water based filler, it should bond well with the timber and once entombed in epoxy and fibreglass should hold well. I'll give it a few days in the sun to dry out fully before epoxying, the weather this week has been a little warm for epoxy work (42degC most days).
MIK's piece in the plans about taking care when shaping small pieces of plywood is where I came undone. :banghead: The piece caught on the router bit and dragged the tip of my finger through with it. No stitches though, nothing left to stitch :) It's mostly healed now I've just gotta wear gloves until the skin grows back.
More photos to follow
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Back again with another update.
I finally bit the bullet and went and bought my epoxy this week. I went and got some boatcote and non yellowing hardener from my local supplier along with some 185gsm cloth and the usual sundries. I decided to fork out the little extra for the ny as I plan on finishing the interior, spars and transom bright.
The putty in the previous post worked okay so long as you didn't leave it too long before sanding (~3 hours). Unfortunately, I did leave it too long on one side of the board due to competing priorities:banghead: it becomes rock hard and a pain to shape (40 grit eventually sorted it).
The competing priorities were definitely worth it though :D I got to put up my new shed (l4.5m*w3m*h2.3m) and some gates.
Today I got around to playing with the epoxy for the first time using the lightweight filler as a skim coat prior to final sand before glassing. I found the boatcote quite pleasant to work with though without a slow hardener it kicked pretty quick (~32degC today).
Attachment 248838
I should be able to sand it tonight or tomorrow prior to skim coating the other side.
Cheers Dan
BTW the finger has mostly healed now (even without epoxy filling it).
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
Well turns out that I didn't need to skim coat the other side of the board so I cracked on and glassed the tip of the board.
Checking the double bias (cut as per the plans) for size.
Attachment 248900
A fair bit over but she'll be sweet.
The initial wet out.
Attachment 248901
After a bit of trimming and filling the weave. Attachment 248902
Tomorrow more sanding fun followed hopefully by glassing the board. With the two layers of glass should I wait until the first layer of glass has gone tacky before applying the second? Or should I drop it on straight away?
Cheers Dan
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Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Tacky. It helps to avoid creating problems with the first layer when you tug and push on the second to smooth out the bumps and creases. I imagine it also promotes better saturation into the wood, but I could be making that up.
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Yes ... I normally try to tease up a corner of the first layer as a test before proceeding with the second. I want the feeling the first layer is just held down a little. Otherwise you end up with two layers sliding all over the place.
If you get a wrinkle in the first it is just about impossible to get rid of.
MIK
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Thanks MIK and David
I went with your advice and waited until the first layer went sticky before dropping the second layer on. I've applied another two coats of epoxy on wet on wet to fill the weave backing that up with a skim coat of fairing compound. I'll wait for it to cure overnight before sanding and recoating to ensure a smooth surface.
And now the photos. ..
Glass checked for size.
Attachment 249013
Wetting out the first layer.
Attachment 249014
I found a 4 inch metal scraper the most useful for this (my plastic one melted in the acetone :banghead: )
Second layer on and wetted out, just needs a trim now.
Attachment 249015
That's all for now.
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
I trimmed the excess fibreglass off today and sanded. I then followed this up with another coat of epoxy, unfortunately this highlighted how much work I still have to do to get this board fair.
Attachment 249082
The board after the epoxy coat.
So I applied another coat of fairing compound and I'll wait for it to dry and sand again.
Attachment 249083
With fairing goop (much smoother)
I'm trying to get the board as smooth as possible before painting, otherwise it'll take forever to get a nice finish on it; especially as I plan on painting it black.
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
Well I've got the port side of the board all nice and smooth now. Time to start work on the starboard side.
My main issues with getting the board smooth and fair stemmed from the initial glassing of the board leading edge up. I did the glassing in the second half of the day to prevent any bubbles, unfortunately my garage door points east providing sub-optimal lighting for picking up runs. So when I move onto the rudder I'll setup some decent lighting to try and sort it out.
Additionally, are there any major issues with filling the weave using the epoxy fairing compound? I think this'll do a much better job of it and I'll throw another couple of coats of epoxy on afterwards to make sure it's well sealed.
Attachment 249367
Shiny
Cheers Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Capturethebeer
...when I move onto the rudder I'll setup some decent lighting to try and sort it out.
I used my rudder as the practice piece for each step of the process. Of the two blades, I would rather have to remake the smaller one. Plus, the rudder is far less important for performance so if I screwed up the shape or the finish, I'd be less inclined to try to make it perfect and could just apply the lesson to the major foil.
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
Work got in the way a bit this week but I managed to finished fairing the dagger board, next stop glue up blank for the rudder. Unfortunately work is back in full swing again so my build rate will drop significantly. That being said I'm hoping to launch by a December (summer) this year.
I'll tackle the masts the way you suggest David, starting off with the boomkin before making the mizzen etc.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/19/jademyry.jpg
The finished board minus paint. I'll wait until the end before painting as I'll spray as it makes more sense only to set the spray booth up once for everything at once.
Cheers Dan
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Hi Dan, Just checking in. Looks like you are well on your way to figuring out epoxy. It's almost magical stuff. I noticed the small sanding block on your board. If that's what you are using to fair there is a better way with a longer block say 300mm or so. This will span lots of bumps at a time and do a better and quicker job of fairing.
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day Simon
I was using the small block to smooth out the top end of the board, for most of the sanding I've been using a 1/3 sheet sander initially followed by a 70cm ( 2'4" ) torture board. I've been using the yellow Norton sandpaper as the white stuff has non clog additives on it. It's been working well and I can get it in 25m rolls.
No further progress over the weekend as house commitments got in the way. I might be able to get stuck in again next weekend.
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Back again
Work has decided to get in the way again however I've now got the next couple of weekends free to work on the boat. So far this weekend I've glued up the rudder blank and smoothed it with a power plane now to sand it down and shape it. Attachment 254647
This has been running concurrent with setting up my shed (built a workbench 4.5m long 80cm wide, with overhead wood rack), and putting up lights and picture hooks for the wife etc.
I'll be ordering the paulownia on Monday, dressed to size and shipped across a continent comes to a bit over $400 ($100 of that figure is shipping), still cheaper and lighter than wrc. Since I'm adding weight in the form of the yawl modifications, I've gotta pull weight out elsewhere (always a difficult proposition). Must resist the temptation to use the jarrah (850kg/m^3) I have lying about (maybe a small insert in the breast hook) :D.
Cheers Dan
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again.
Slow progress but I've managed to get the rudder blade shaped. I had a bit of tear out when planing in vicinity of the scarfs but nothing some lightweight filler and wood flour can't fix. :)
Attachment 257490
I also had the paulownia rock up last week, well packed and all intact so a big thumbs up to Whitewood.
I'll get some glassing done this week but we'll see how work goes with regard to further progress.
Dan out.
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Howdy,
I would be REALLY interested to get a weight of this, the second Paulownia framed boat. Have you already chatted with Bruce about where he used the Paulownia?
He worked quite consistently to keep weight out of the hull through the building process - lightweighting is really more of a consistent process of trimming weight at each point of the build - and got a hull that weighed in at 105lbs.
This is actually quite good even for something carbonish composite.
Best wishes
Michael
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
No pressure eh Mik?
It will be difficult to lose the weight of the additional mast steps required for the yawl build, but I've got a few ideas on how to drop some weight.
1) All mast step boxes will be made of 4mm gaboon ply. 33% reduction.
2) Gunwales and inwales made from cedar vis Oregon. 10-15% reduction.
3. Mast steps made from lightweight meranti (400kg/m^3).
4. Considering drilling out inwale spacers and framing to lighten. However I'm not sure if the extra epoxy required to seal will add more weight than I save.
5. All framing material paulownia.
6. Can I shave down any of the framing stock or am I courting disaster?
I'll still tape the chines and epoxy IAW the manual.
I've not talked with Bruce but I've studied his log which is full of great ideas to drop weight.
Cheers Dan
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Let me lighten the weight I just put on your shoulders!
You are doing more than I would!
I really meant more like making sure excess epoxy doesn't go into the build. Some see epoxy in the bottom of a mixing container and think ... where can I put that.
The reality is that the boat is strong enough already so there is nowhere for extra epoxy to go! :)
Sorry I sounded like high expectations!
MIK
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Commenced glassing the rudder today.
Just the tip :D (Archer reference)
Attachment 258085
I'll finish off the glassing this week and then I'll have to take a 2 month hiatus for work. :(
Cheers Dan
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Work getting in the way
Now that is a major bummer. Weather is currently getting in my way. It is currently -17 C outside. :oo:
Capture a beer or two and maybe it will go away. :D
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Short of working an industrial freezer I've never been that cold. :)
When I get back it'll be winter here in West Oz but it's a bit milder at 10-12deg C normally.
Talk to you all in a while
Dan out
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Back on the grid if somewhat temporarily.
I'm currently lounging about in Singapore, with another month or so until I get home. In order to alleviate my growing concerns about boat progress or lack thereof I decided to embark on some boating retail therapy.
Lessons learnt:
1. Electronics cheap(duh)
2. Cordage reasonable I just got all the lines for about $110Aus (all first choice stuff off the storer website)
3. Blocks etc. Outrageous. No ma'am I will not pay $50 for a single 6mm block. No, I don't care if it's made from unobtainium, or was handcrafted by miniature giant space hamsters.
The food here remains awesome.
Dan out.
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Back again
I've got a few weeks of leave now and a boat to build. :)
Today I scarfed up the cedar staves for my box boom. I've ripped them at 12mm x 40mm which should make the boom work out at 40mm x 64mm at its thickest point tapering down to 50mm x 40mm at the ends. I'll post the full details including weight and flex once it's done.
I experimented with the scarfing today, using my old Falcon plane, a Stanley shureshave plane, and an electric plane. The electric won out in terms of speed, but the Falcon gave the best finish. In future I'll use a combo of the two. The shureshave doesn't have the width or the weight to ensure a consistent finish in this wood (I'll leave it for MDF and foam).
Attachment 273129
My staves glueing (ignore the electrical trip hazards :)). I do hope it sets up, noting the temperature is currently 15 deg C.
On a side note, is the slightly purple colour for boatcote's fillet/glue powder normal? It looks very similar to their lightweight filler only a little lumpy. I was hoping for something a little closer to wood. I might have to go get some wood flour.
Dan out
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Howdy Dan,
Sounds good with the boom
With cedar I would wrap a band of glass around the downhaul area (maybe 200mm wide - one layer with a 25mm overlap at the end) and some around the front and back - the glass tape will be OK there. Cedar is prone to splitting where the grain runs out - the laminated construction will take care of most of the risk - but to be sure a little glass might be sensible.
I look forward to finding out the weight and bend characteristics for the standardized chart in the WIKI on setting up the lug rigs
WIKI for setting up and tuning Lug and Sprit Rigs | Storer Boat Plans in Wood and Plywood
The purple colour ... haven't seen that before - no pigment will ever really match the wood ,.. but it the powder is sufficiently woody to disappear when the timber is epoxy coated. You could run a trial on a scrap bit of ply - maybe making a fillet and sanding and coating it. The coating shifts the colours around a lot - as the wood darkens substantially. Take it out in the daylight too.
Remember too that the only bit that is obviously filleted are the tops of the buoyancy tanks. otherwise it is just glue lines where close enough is probably good enough.
Great you are getting some boatbuilding time! What were you in Singapore for?
MIK
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day Mik
Thanks for the tip on glassing IVO the downhaul area, I'll crack on with that.
Today I made up a spar jig in my shed by running a fishing line along my work bench, screwing some wood blocks along the line and then covering the whole lot in packing tape.
Attachment 273285
Then I shaped the side staves to get some taper into the boom. I followed the boom taper in the plans, however I applied the full amount to only to the bottom edge. This should give a nice curve to the bottom of the boom but leave the top and sides square. I'll radius all edges to 6mm prior to glassing.
Here's the ladder glued up.
Attachment 273294
I've used the following for spacers (all cedar:
1x60cm (leading edge)
2x20cm (trailing edge and mid point)
6x5cm (evenly spaced)
Probably overkill noting the number of spacers in the square mast, I might still drill out the spacers a bit to lighten it up.
I was in Singapore with the Navy, participating in a multinational exercise. Aussies, Kiwis, Poms, Singaporeans and Malaysians. Singapore' s a great place to visit but quite expensive for everything bar food.
Tomorrow I get my ply. But I'll have to take a break over the weekend to go camping.
Dan out.
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
I ended up drilling out the boom spacers with a 16mm spade bit in multiple places but left the 20cm at either end alone.
Attachment 273883
After I'd cleaned up from that I glued on the bottom side of the boom. I used the high strength powder for this and spread it out using some paddlepop sticks. I probably(read certainly:D) should have cleaned up after this as it's a pig to clean up once hardened.
Attachment 273886
I've just finished gluing on the top but it's now too dark to take a photo.
I've got my ply nice gaboon stuff. 6 sheets of 6mm and 1 sheet of 4mm. The 4mm is for making the mast boxes and enclosing the middle seat.
Attachment 273888
No way to treat $800 worth of plywood.
Dan out.
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That's exactly how I got my okoume home from a dealer in Charleston, about 2 1/2 hours from here.
It was on that trip that I learned that my Sirius satellite radio antennae could pick up a signal just fine, right through about an inch-and-a-half of plywood. :)
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
Nice
I only had to travel about 30 minutes, though the guy at the yacht shop thought I was nuts. Plus he's still trying to get me to build a Sabre (one thing at a time otherwise the wife'll kill me).
My boom is all glued up and awaiting final epoxy and glass, so far it weighs 2.4kg so it'll be a bit on the heavy side. I haven't measured deflection yet but it hardly budged with my 90kg leaning on it.
I've started cutting out the side panels however my jigsaw died last night mid way through the 2nd panel. So I went to the fall back option of the Japanese pull saw.
Attachment 274381
The offending jigsaw (cheap stuff a bought years ago), I'll probably replace it with a cordless one today.
Attachment 274382
I copied the side panel after planing it down, using the pull saw and a flush trim bit in the router. I ended up using the pull saw to remove most of the wood prior to using the router as it was starting to wander off I went straight to the router first.
Hopefully I'll get some more done today, children permitting.
Dan out.
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Re: Goat Island Skiff (yawl) build in Perth, West Oz
G'day again
Well the boom has been epoxied and glassed at the tips and IVO the downhaul. I'm yet varnish it yet but that might have to wait a bit. Final weight is 2.66kg a bit heavy but it has a vertical deflection of 10mm and horizontal deflection of 22mm using a 12kg weight, so nice and stiff. I think it'll handle a loose footed sail nicely.
Attachment 274592
I replaced old jigsaw with a cordless li-ion one, cuts like a dream (nice new blades help).
Attachment 274593
I've finished the side panels but I need to do a bit more house stuff before I can make more progress.
Attachment 274594
Dan out.
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