Tig Welders and the like.

Good Afternoon,

I was hoping to get a bit of advice on welders. I have a FabGear 200 AC/DC Tig unit distributed by a pretty decent company. I like the welder but find on occasion the HF start does not ignite. The supplier says they cannot fault the unit.

I am considering replacing this with either the Token Tools AC/DC tig unit or the Everlast 210. The unit I have seems to be a 'highly' similar one to the Everlast.

Any advice would be appreciated or opinions please

Thanks
Alanhttps://www.woodworkforums.com/images/icons/icon8.png

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Originally Posted by DocBug

Good Afternoon,

I was hoping to get a bit of advice on welders. I have a FabGear 200 AC/DC Tig unit distributed by a pretty decent company. I like the welder but find on occasion the HF start does not ignite. The supplier says they cannot fault the unit.

I am considering replacing this with either the Token Tools AC/DC tig unit or the Everlast 210. The unit I have seems to be a 'highly' similar one to the Everlast.

Any advice would be appreciated or opinions please

Thanks
Alanhttps://www.woodworkforums.com/images/icons/icon8.png

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I haven't owned either welder or used either supplier, so i can't comment specifically. It's hard to know what to do with electronic welders nowadays. I recently spend days repairing a 4 in one welder that cost me $1500, which failed after 2 years. The supplier put me onto a repair shop but he said he just replaced complete boards. There are only about three boards so i took a guess at what it would cost and repaired it at component level myself. It wasn't easy though, its not designed to be taken apart and i could find no diagrams for it. If your not a cash poor electronics guy, then you are going to have to pay for repair and I thinkmost shops will say its uneconomic to repair. (if you're a rich electronics guy you would probably just buy a new one - a real pain to work on) Where I'm going to with this is you need to prepare for them going faullty. I think the both have a 5 year warranty althgough you can reduce the warranty with tokentools and get it cheaper. You could be lucky, but I know I'm not.
Everlast claim their welders are different to the generic ones that look the same. I have a generic TC256 and i've seen pictures of one of theirs dismantled on the internet. Everything looks very similiar inside, and they were definitely using the same circuit boards/layout inside. They claim to beef up areas that fail regualrly, but I'm pretty sure the chinese would just copy their design too anyway. In fact mine uses a single IGBT "Brick" output stage where theirs was made of discrete IGBTs. If anything i would say theirs was cheaper to manufacture and yet it cost more. Maybe since yours has gone faulty, and the everlast looks the same, that's enough to go for a token tools?
With your faulty welder, does it make a noise when it doesn't ignite the hf arc? You know, the noise it makes if you press the button by accident and you are nowhere near the workpiece?
If it makes that type of noise, it may be arcing over inside the welder. you can maybe re-route the wire that carries the HF over the the output coil, to keep it away from the chassis. How far does the HF usually go? Mine would pull an arc of about 2~3 inches (if i accidently pushed the button before i was ready). I actually reduced the spark gap (to what everlast recommended on some forum or other) so it now only does an arc about 3/4 inch. That reduces the stress on the compnents, hopefully for a longer life. If your spark gap is just too big, it might intermitently fail to work. You also need to make sure your earth clamp onto the work piece is good, first thing to check really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DocBug

I like the welder but find on occasion the HF start does not ignite. The supplier says they cannot fault the unit.

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You might not need to replace anything. Have you looked at the HF spark gap contacts? This is a DIY fix that'll take 10 minutes including testing. Make sure the contacts are clean, no dust etc. or try adjusting the spark gap either side of manufacturers recommended setting. This would have to be the most common problem for HF starts - will be affected by humidity and dust so will be intermittent in nature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DocBug

I am considering replacing this with either the Token Tools AC/DC tig unit or the Everlast 210. The unit I have seems to be a 'highly' similar one to the Everlast.

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I've had a tokentools AC/DC tig (Alusync 200) for ages now (4 years I think) and I've been very happy with it.

Good luck

- Mick

Lack of shielding gas can cause/contribute to the issue also.
If you have a good welder repairman nearby, I would get it looked at. I say good, because some have no idea. Most retailers will turn he machine on, have a quick play and then proclaim all in the world as good. Few even know how to properly set up a welder.
Not all chinese welders are created equal and that is why a good repairman is invaluable, they can tell you which to buy and.which to avoid.

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Originally Posted by WelderMick

You might not need to replace anything. Have you looked at the HF spark gap contacts? This is a DIY fix that'll take 10 minutes including testing. Make sure the contacts are clean, no dust etc. or try adjusting the spark gap either side of manufacturers recommended setting. This would have to be the most common problem for HF starts - will be affected by humidity and dust so will be intermittent in nature.


I've had a tokentools AC/DC tig (Alusync 200) for ages now (4 years I think) and I've been very happy with it.

Good luck

- Mick

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Hi Mick,

Not opened the unit, would not even know where the spark gap is or how to adjust it. Just as a matter of interest, do the Digital welders have a spark gap ?


Regards
Alan

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Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

Lack of shielding gas can cause/contribute to the issue also.
If you have a good welder repairman nearby, I would get it looked at. I say good, because some have no idea. Most retailers will turn he machine on, have a quick play and then proclaim all in the world as good. Few even know how to properly set up a welder.
Not all chinese welders are created equal and that is why a good repairman is invaluable, they can tell you which to buy and.which to avoid.

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Hi Karl,

Used a new bottle and different regulator. In fact yesterday , has the gas companies sales rep here, he tried it and found it failed while he was testing. He put it in his car and said he will get it sorted. I recon after 2 toches, two remote control functions, two bottles and two regs, I can assume it's a unit issue.

Regards
Alan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WelderMick

You might not need to replace anything. Have you looked at the HF spark gap contacts? This is a DIY fix that'll take 10 minutes including testing. Make sure the contacts are clean, no dust etc. or try adjusting the spark gap either side of manufacturers recommended setting.

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Have I been asleep again ? Have I missed the emergence of adjustable points in a solid state inverter circuit board .?


Mick! You might well be thinking of an old Miller type machine,so don't think the following rant is directed at you, because at his point I am thinking you are refering to the old style to the CY350 AC/DC machine had a little access door in the cover which allowed you to file and adjust the HF points just like distributor points . Thats acceptable as you are not opening up a machine and having potential exposure to potentially lethal voltage.


To all contributors in general

If any one is thinking its ok to split a welder case open and work on it, outside of being an electrical engineer type or registered electrical trades person, think again. It is illegal to do perform work and hook it back up to the mains . If you think I am full of it it, do a check with with your friendly state OH&S inspector says. Go on! I challenge any doubters to do this.

If that's not enough and if you must risk yourself as an untrained person, keep it to yourself don't write about in the forum and encourage others to do it. Its all about liability folks. Sooner or later some poor soul will believe he is skilled enough on the basis of what has been learned here.

He will fry himself and it will be on (legally speaking) for those involved.In order that the forum is not at risk of being shut down because of what is at risk of to it. Will we will get to to the stage where people could get banned?


Please everybody If your are not trained to do so do not open up these inverter cases.These units can bite hard thanks to capacitors within. Its rectified current feeding into a capacitor from memory.DC can be nasty at high volts.Anyway .its illegal to interfere with welder primary electrical unless qualified /certified. What you do (electrically ) in the privacy of your workshop is one thing To advise others who may not be legally permitted to deal with internal machine electrical is quite another.If it all goes pear shaped the ramifications could be enormous to individuals personally and may have effects for continuation of this forum.

If that adjustment procedure is not stated in your inverter welder manual/directions/instructions- and I am sure it is not- its a real good idea to leave the internal sparky bits alone.These machines can bite you even when switched off.
Hopefully there will be a big yellow sign erected in a while to advise against such folly.

Grahame

Just to dial things back in complexity a little bit, I normally find that when my TIG does not want to initiate an arc, it's the earth contact as Sossity suggested.

Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DocBug

Hi Karl,

Used a new bottle and different regulator. In fact yesterday , has the gas companies sales rep here, he tried it and found it failed while he was testing. He put it in his car and said he will get it sorted. I recon after 2 toches, two remote control functions, two bottles and two regs, I can assume it's a unit issue.

Regards
Alan

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You can be lucky sometimes!
After all that, it definitely is a unit issue. Hope it gets sorted for you soon.

Thank you for all your input, I will see today what they say. I have asked for a replacement unit to evaluate and see if the same issues occur.

I recon after this negative experience, if the unit is not resolved I will get rid of it and save up to a better quality welder.

Bit disappointing and it's left a bad taste.

Soooo putting it out there, anyone recommend a brand that is affordable ? new or used.

Thanks
Alan

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Originally Posted by DocBug

Soooo putting it out there, anyone recommend a brand that is affordable ? new or used.
Thanks Alan

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DocBug

Token tools have been mentioned in this forum before.-usual disclaimer - I have no affiliations other than making phone inquiries over a plasma cutter.
There's quite a few on this board that have dealt with him and feedback is positive.he has been around at least a decade- .By comparison shonkies do not last long.

All comments indicate his machines have minimal problems and any are resolved pretty quick

The good thing is he sells from a bricks & mortar shop and does his repairs at his shop. He has spares / replacements and a bloody good guarantee.
From memory he is an ex electrician with and Electrical Engineers degree who has designed the units he sells and has them made (yes in China- but to his specs - meaning good components are used?

May be others can help with more recommendations. I have spoken to him on the phone and the guy knows what he is taking about.I have forgotten his name as someone else on the board would like his name. If some can help with this -terrific- I have mentioned him before only because he seems to be one of the few vendors who has got it all together.
At least its worth looking at his website and giving him a call.

Grahame

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Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

If that adjustment procedure is not stated in your inverter welder manual/directions/instructions- and I am sure it is not- its a real good idea to leave the internal sparky bits alone.

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Yep, I fully agree Grahame, I wasn't thinking too much about the safety issues to others - so good call.

I won't open the unit, but finally tonight I managed to video the fault occurring, hopefully get a reaction tomorrow :)

I agree with Graham (if there is anything to agree on) you don't want to mess with opening Welders, you should consult w a professional.
About getting this kind of machinery used or new; I will say that I bought used machinery before and I had great experiences, just make sure the previous owner is trustworthy and took good care of the tools; you should remember that in most cases you are giving up the guarantee so if the tool doesn't work properly you will have lost a lot of money

Jon_B

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Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

It is illegal to do perform work and hook it back up to the mains .

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Sorry to be pedantic, but that is not completely true (for a private individual). Sure there is still liability attached, if something goes wrong, but as it is not fixed wiring or permanently connected device it is not strictly "illegal". OH&S doesn't apply.