Dean Smith & Grace 1307

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15th March 2015, 09:21 AM
Piers037

4 Attachment(s)

Dean Smith & Grace 1307

My Colchester Chipmaster is too small for some of the larger automotive work that I do so I have been on the lookout for something a bit bigger.

This week I picked up a very nice DSG 1307 from Thales (ADI) in bendigo. Thales are gearing up to make the new Hawkei vehicle and need the floor space where the DSG was set up. In the move they kept a larger DSG and sold the 1307.

Here is a quick summary. I will post more about the machine specs once I have read the manual! More photos to follow once I get it in place and cleaned up.

Plus
Quality machine
Very good condition. Needs a good clean. Has not been unused for a while.
250mm Pratt & Bernard Super Precision 3 jaw Chuck (hardly used)
250mm Pratt & Bernard 4 jaw chuck (as new, slight surface rust)
Swiss made Multifix QCTP with 13 tool holders
Power drilling attachment
Age. Year of manufacture 1981
Tail stock is MT3 and can share tooling with the Chipmaster
Original manual and drawings supplied
Location of machine 30km from home
Know history of machine and ADI reputation for maintaining machinery properly
Free loading
Price: $2600 + RIP

Minus
No steadies
No faceplate (the one that came with the machine if off another small lathe)
Thread chasing dial missing.
Tail stock MT has signs of scouring.

Cheers

Piers

Sent from my iPadAttachment 342176 Attachment 342177 Attachment 342178 Attachment 342179
15th March 2015, 11:41 AM
markgray

Well done and looking forward to following your progress to install her. Price was pretty good as the QCTP and holders would not be far shy of the total cost.

Regards

Mark
15th March 2015, 11:52 AM
.RC.

Very good... if you are wondering about why it is called a 1307... 13" swing over bed, 07" swing over cross slide...
15th March 2015, 11:56 AM
RayG

Hi Piers,

I think you got a real bargain there, DSG's are definately the Rolls Royce of lathes, and you got yourself a good one at a ridiculously low price.

Are you sure it's a 1307, I thought it was 1306 x 40, not that it matters and in any event I'm not even sure what the differences are.

I looked up the specs on the PB super precision chuck, guaranteed 0.03 mm TIR... that combined with the multifix tool posts makes it a real winner. :2tsup:

Looking forward to seeing it come to life.

Ray
15th March 2015, 03:30 PM
.RC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Piers,

I think you got a real bargain there, DSG's are definately the Rolls Royce of lathes,

Nah, Monarchs are..:D

As an interesting tidbit of information... Monarch probably owned DS&G when that lathe was made...
15th March 2015, 04:19 PM
Stustoys

So many levers :? lol

Whats going on with a gap, if is a gap. what ever it is the rear ways seem to be missing??

Looking forward to the clean up pictures.

Stuart
15th March 2015, 05:35 PM
Dave J

Hi Stuart
Just having a closer look at what your normal eagle eyes pick up and it looks like the saddle is thin at the back on that side so the way at the back does not need to go all the way to the headstock.
Nice lathe at a great price.
15th March 2015, 06:27 PM
argeng

DSG

Hi Piers,
The DSG manual clearly states that you have too many Multifix tool holders and you need to sell me at least half of what you have, rock bottom price of course.

Well done a great pick up, nice piece of gear.

Cheers Bruce
15th March 2015, 06:30 PM
Piers037

Multifix Prices

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgray

Price was pretty good as the QCTP and holders would not be far shy of the total cost.

Regards

Mark

Hi Mark,

I had no idea how pricey the original Multifix are, so out of interest I priced them up on the Internet. Total price for the post and holders purchased individually is $3600 USD:o

http://www.thomasskinner.com/Custome...9cat_pg199.pdf

Cheers

Piers
15th March 2015, 06:38 PM
Piers037

TIR 0.03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Piers,

Are you sure it's a 1307, I thought it was 1306 x 40, not that it matters and in any event I'm not even sure what the differences are.

I looked up the specs on the PB super precision chuck, guaranteed 0.03 mm TIR... that combined with the multifix tool posts makes it a real winner. :2tsup:

Ray

Hi Ray,

Great to met yourself and Josh at the auction.

Pretty sure it is a 1307?

The 3 jaw TIR 0.03 guaranteed might be why the 4 jaw shows no sign of use and was gathering dust and a fine layer of surface rust!

Once it is set up I will check the TIR.

Cheers

Piers
15th March 2015, 06:47 PM
Piers037

Monarch-DSG

Quote:

Originally Posted by .RC.

Nah, Monarchs are..:D

As an interesting tidbit of information... Monarch probably owned DS&G when that lathe was made...

Hi RC,

I think DSG are the Rolls Royce. Monarch are the Cadillac of lathes. :)

Either way I have the Rolls Royce as the 1307 was sold in the USA as a Monarch-DSG :wink:

scroll down this link to see the Monarch flyer and what my lathe looked like new!

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ch-dsg-173330/

Cheers

Piers
15th March 2015, 09:03 PM
Piers037

1 Attachment(s)

Ways

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stustoys

So many levers :? lol

Whats going on with a gap, if is a gap. what ever it is the rear ways seem to be missing??

Looking forward to the clean up pictures.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

I have not had time to investigate the "gap" feature of the lathe. Any DSG owners able to shed some light!

from what I recall (the lathe is not at my house) the missing way at the rear looks like a shoot to direct chips away from the bed. The rear way stops roughly in line with the chuck and the saddle carriage is flush with the tool centre line.

see if the attached photo sheds any more light on the subject.

Cheers

Piers
15th March 2015, 09:24 PM
Piers037

DSG Manual

Quote:

Originally Posted by argeng

Hi Piers,
The DSG manual clearly states that you have too many Multifix tool holders and you need to sell me at least half of what you have, rock bottom price of course.
Cheers Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Read most of the manual today but could not find the reference you mention :D

Cheers

Piers
15th March 2015, 09:35 PM
Piers037

DSG 1307 Features

Today I had a flick through the DSG manual and have put together the following summary of its key features:

swing over bed: 13"
Swing over sadle: 7"
Swing in gap: 22"
Distance between centres: 40"
Head stock bore diameter: 2 &1/8"
High speed belt driven head option
18 spindle speeds from 20 to 2240 RPM
Spindle nose: D1-6"
10 hp 3 phase motor
weight: 2520kg
45 metric and Inch thread pitches and feed rates (quick change)
Visual indicator of spindal speed selected
Visual indicator of pitch and feed rates selected
MT3 tail stock
Power drilling attachment

Feed reduction lever on apron. 1:1 and 5:8
6 adjustable carage stop positions
Built in head stock work steady "spider"
GIB Autogard apron safety clutch
Threading stop built into cross slide hand wheel
Multi start thread positioning indicator built into spindle nose.

What have I missed? Any other 1307 owners on the forum who can add something?

Cheers

Piers
15th March 2015, 10:50 PM
Stustoys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave J

Hi Stuart
Just having a closer look at what your normal eagle eyes pick up and it looks like the saddle is thin at the back on that side so the way at the back does not need to go all the way to the headstock.

Hi Dave,

I'm thinking the carriage is square.

Thanks for the picture Piers, looks like its not a gap bed. Guess we'll find out one day :)

Stuart
16th March 2015, 02:48 PM
Piers037

1 Attachment(s)

DS&G 1307 Manual

The DS&G 1307 came with a manual. The manual if from a different machine to mine, produced 2 years earlier.

As far as I can tell the changes are only cosmetic. Plastic hand wheels vs steel, and a different set up for the electrical buttons.

The manual is very comprehensive and covers all the usual topics.

The manual is 96 pages and 5.5 MB

Cheers

Piers
16th March 2015, 03:56 PM
Dave J

Looking at the picture again you are right Stuart, I thought it had longer side at the front but it's only a lead screw cover etc.
Mystery lol
16th March 2015, 10:21 PM
Belair_boy

Quote:

This week I picked up a very nice DSG 1307 from Thales (ADI) in bendigo.

I am suffering a great deal of lathe envy at the moment. Great lathe and fantastic buy. :D
17th March 2015, 07:21 AM
Hunch

Good buying. Probably find you won't have enough tool holders - not too many, looks like the larger machine kept with tradition and Dickson! I'd make sure they're secured, or pick up as soon as possible, Styles "lost" a couple of items for us that would have required a forklift to move on a supposedly secure site, replacement value of 15k, of course, somehow, it wasn't their fault :rolleyes:.

Dro is gone, if the brochure indicates standard fitment? The guarding looks interesting, wonder how many times that was used, hmmm. Tailstock compared to another DSG that went to the great shed in the sky a while back, seems on the smaller size, if my memory isn't totally cactus!
17th March 2015, 07:56 AM
Piers037

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunch

Good buying. Probably find you won't have enough tool holders - not too many

Hunch,

I agree. I have 10 for the Chipmaster and still need to change things out occasionally :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunch

I'd make sure they're secured, or pick up as soon as possible!

I picked up all the loose items as soon as the funds transfer went through. Lathe is now safely on the ground at my temporary workshop. Not going to have a chance to move it into position and power it up for a couple of weeks !!! :(

Cheers

Piers
27th March 2015, 05:38 PM
Piers037

3 Attachment(s)

Powered Clean Up

Made it out to the workshop one night for a couple of hours to start cleaning up the DSG. The entire lathe is coated in a layer of dried coolant/grime, so I decided to do a complete strip down of the compound and cross slides.

One of the 4 compound slide nuts was tight, when I pulled it out the thread had galled up so I will need to make a new T bolt.

I then went too disassemble the compound slide but the one allen key missing from my Imperial set was the one I needed so I moved on to the cross side.

Once the cross slide was off the lathe I gave it quick wipe over with kero and a green Scotch-brite to remove the heavy grime. I then experimented by fitting a large green Scotch-brite to my 1/3 sheet finishing sander. This worked a treat and made the clean up very easy. I am very hapy with the results.

Ran out of time at the end of the night,The cross slide is showing some minor signs of wear, so I will mic it up to see how much it is worn.

Cheers

Piers
Attachment 343107 Attachment 343106 Attachment 343105
27th March 2015, 06:00 PM
RayG

Nice work Piers, can't wait to see the rest of it come up looking like that!...

I use the scotchbrite pads with kero the same way... you can get them to fit a 4" angle grinder as well, but you need to run them at reduced speed so as to not remove any metal.
http://www.toolking.com.au/polishing...pack-9-pieces/

Ray
28th March 2015, 10:05 AM
.RC.

If the cross slide is worn, we will be expecting a rescrape back to perfection... :)
28th March 2015, 10:33 AM
Piers037

Re scrape

Quote:

Originally Posted by .RC.

If the cross slide is worn, we will be expecting a rescrape back to perfection... :)

Hi RC,

I am hoping that the wear is minimal and it won't need a scrape at this stage as the cross slide is too big to fit on my little surface plate.

hope to make it out to the workshop today:)

Cheers

Piers
28th March 2015, 10:57 AM
.RC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piers037

as the cross slide is too big to fit on my little surface plate.

For the super cheap price of $880 plus postage I can easily fix that problem you have... :D

All though I personally think GuzziJohn needs a bigger plate and I will deliver it to him for free... :D
28th March 2015, 11:48 AM
Belair_boy

Quote:

I gave it quick wipe over with kero and a green Scotch-brite to remove the heavy grime. I then experimented by fitting a large green Scotch-brite to my 1/3 sheet finishing sander.

G'day Piers

I have been going down the same path with my Colchester and like your idea of the finishing sander.
Where do you get your large Scotch-brights from?

Does anyone know of a good source of 8" Scotch-bright disks for a buffing machine? I like what Brad (BasementShopGuy) does on YouTube.

Good luck with the restoration and please keep the pictures coming.
28th March 2015, 11:55 AM
RayG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belair_boy

Does anyone know of a good source of 8" Scotch-bright disks for a buffing machine? I like what Brad (BasementShopGuy) does on YouTube.

I get them from the same place I get the angle grinder pads http://www.toolking.com.au/products/...HEEL-8%22.html

Great for deburring as well.

Ray
29th March 2015, 06:53 PM
Piers037

Surface Plate

Quote:

Originally Posted by .RC.

For the super cheap price of $880 plus postage I can easily fix that problem :D

Postage might be a killer :wink:

I have a mate who is looking to bring a container load of granite from China for a building project. If this goes ahead I will get a surface plate in the container as well :D.

Cheers

Piers
29th March 2015, 06:56 PM
Piers037

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belair_boy

Where do you get your large Scotch-brights from?
.

Any Industrial supplies shop should be able to help you out.

Cheers

Piers
30th March 2015, 08:54 PM
Piers037

5 Attachment(s)

DSG Compound and Cross Slide Wear

My wife was away for the weekend so I was flying solo with the kids. This meant limited shed time , but it did mean that I could convert the kitchen table into a compound slide cleaning station and work at night....Just about got the smell of kero out of the house...:rolleyes:

Once I had everything cleaned and scotch brighter I miced it all up. See photos for measurements.

In summary:
Compound slide wear is much greater on the bottom half. I am guessing that the base is cast iron and the top is steel? Wear in the top is 0.01mm front to back. The bottom half has a lot more wear with 0.08mm front to back.

The cross slide has a similar amount of total wear front to back but the wear is not even across the total length. Total wear front to back is 0.08mm. Interestingly the wear is fairly even for 3/4 of the slide length at the tool post end and then much less wear at the far end as you would expect. At the far end from the tool post there are still some faint signs of scrapping.

For all the experienced guys out there, what do you make of the wear?

Will it impact the performance of the lathe that much?

My plan at this stage is to clean everything up and put it back together and start making chips with it and see how she goes....

While I was in a cleaning frenzy I also gave my NEWS brand, Kurt style vice (which I picked up at the same auction) a good going over. Very happy for $80 + RIP :D

Cheers

Piers
30th March 2015, 09:39 PM
RayG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piers037

While I was in a cleaning frenzy I also gave my NEWS brand, Kurt style vice (which I picked up at the same auction) a good going over. Very happy for $80 + RIP :D

Nice Vice :D

Oh, the DSG is nice too... The variation in thickness seems a lot, but I'd like to see another digit of precision in the measurements. The measurements probably need to be in situ, against the reference surfaces, before they mean much. Machine Survey is a whole other topic. But seeing as you can see where the wear is, you have some clues as to how to go about the scraping.

Ray
30th March 2015, 09:59 PM
Piers037

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

Nice Vice :D
Ray

Ray how did your "sister" News vice clean up? From memory yours had a few more Swiss cheese holes:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

Machine Survey is a whole other topic.

Ray

I agree, that's why I am not keen to launch into something way over my head. Will see how it preforms and take it from there.

Cheers

Piers
30th March 2015, 10:18 PM
RayG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piers037

Ray how did your "sister" News vice clean up? From memory yours had a few more Swiss cheese holes:D

Hi Piers,

Not as clean as yours... out of the 3 I picked up, all are good condition 2 are excellent, one has some battle scars, but they are only cosmetic flesh wounds. The plan is to do some touch up grinding and try and get 3 matches. Two of them have sequential serial numbers, which is nice, but probably meaningless...

Josh has been cleaning up the Taft Pierce box parallels, and some of the bigger parallels, They are measuring up nicely.

Ray
1st April 2015, 01:06 AM
jhovel

:zap: without photos it didn't happen Ray :zap:
1st April 2015, 10:00 AM
RayG

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhovel

:zap: without photos it didn't happen Ray :zap:

Very True.. but I don't want to hijack Piers thread..

Attachment 343591 Attachment 343592

Taft Pierce box parallels, there were 3 of those, in different sizes.. I don't know what the round spacers were from, but they were all precision ground and hardened, so Josh has ground them all the same, might come in handy in setting up fixtures.
The big parallels are likewise ground and hardened..

Ray
12th April 2015, 09:39 PM
Piers037

2 Attachment(s)

Update

I managed to slip away from the family camping trip over Easter long enough to borrow a 4 ton fork and a set of machine skates to slide the DSG from the loading bay into the shed. While I had the fork on site I also used it to unload my Maho MH700 which has been in storage for 18 months.

Now I just need to level the machines, power them up, reassemble the DSG cross slide and compound, plus a few other little things....Like getting all the Maho NT40/BT40 tooling pull studs sorted out.

Two other items are required before I fire up the DSG. The first is a pump style oiler and the other is a 25mm shank CNMG insert tool holder.....So this morning I headed off to the Castlemaine swap meet with these items top of my wish list.

At the one stall I picked up a BNIB Sandvik DCLNR 25x25 tool holder and a "AKA" brand 50-2 oiler. Tooler holder was $60 and he was not sure what the oiler was so he gave me that for $5. At another stall I picked up 5 MT drills, a pair of vee blocks and the 4 grinding disks for $30, so it was a very productive morning. :)

Cheers

Piers