Gloat - Tsushima Nagura & Kikuhiromaru Mentori Usu-nomi

Today I was the lucky recipient of a package from So aka japan-tools.com. In this package came a massive brick going by the name of Tsushima Nagura, the stone has a heavy black urushi coated on the sides and the bottom, the Tsushima Nagura, has a reputation for cracking. This stone is my second natural to compliment my Ohira Namito. The Tsushima Nagura is rated about #6000 grit. I gave it spin around this evening and its one sweet stone. Nice and hard just the way I like my stones. The beauty of the Tsushima Nagura is that it refines the steel preparing it for the Ohira Namito rated at #20000. Up to now I have struggled to get the most out of my Ohira Namito in regards of getting a consistent sharp edge, having to work hard to remove the coarse scratch mark. However the Tsushima Nagura refines the steel to such a degree that the it is now easy to gets a beautiful defect free surface, in terms of having zero errant scratches left from the courser stones, under magnification I now have a soft mottled grey speckled surface at 100 magnification.

I now have to save my pennies to get a #2000 git natural. :doh: A slippery slope indeed.

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The second part of my package I got three Kikuhiromaru Mentori Usu-nomi (thin long handle paring chisels) with white oak handles at 6mm, 12mm & 18mm. The edge landings are nice and fine, without being so thin that they cut your hands. I am a big fan of Kikuhiromaru chisels, there edge retention and chip resistants is second to none and I have tried Tasai. Last year I purchased a Kikuhiromaru 24mm Kaku-uchi oire-nomi, to get a feel for his craftsmanship. This brings my Kikuhiromaru to four, and my Japanese chisels to 8. I had a go setting up the 18mm chisel today. The ura was good for most part. One corner at the very leading edge was a little low, it took some effort to get the ura nice and flat without deforming the hollow. Note how beautiful the mimi (ears) are on the lamination line. Kikuhiromaru does amazing work.


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I hope to add a 24mm and 42 mm Kikuhiromaru Mentori Usu-nomi w/ white oak sometime in the next six months.

I keep reading all about this Japanese stuff
But still haven't dipped my toe in yet one day soon

Simplicity - for the love of god - turn off your computer and run far, far away. This Japanese thing is an evil thing. :;

That is what scares and excites me the most
I can feel the pull now
Matt

Matt,

I have dipped my toe and its too bloody hot to handle. All I can say is, whenever I use such tools, I feel obligated to create the best work (to my ability of course) I can. Its a bunch of fun and it really does help to enhance my overall enjoyment of the hobby.

Ripper looking parcels there thumbsucker. I could look at photos of j tools all day long. So is such a generous man with his time and expertise when you do catch his attention.

I have seen your posts in the japanese tools section regularly, but haven't seen what you produce with your lovely looking tools. Do you lean towards the traditional japanese joinery or use them for all woodworking applications (as I do - one day I'll look at some of their incredibly intricate joints, pick the easy parts and give them a crack).

Cheers

Gab

Matt - I am weary of advising people to embark down the path of Japanese tools. It is not simple and I personally feel that there are many caveats to them.

As David Charlesworth said Japanese tools are real thoroughbreds.

I think most people start of with Japanese synthetic stones these are simple and easy. Illustrated by the omnipresence of Japanese synthetic stones in Western woodworking.
Japanese saws I think are the easy first easy step. They are cheap and quality saws are easy to obtained. They however are problematic if you insist on using rock hard timbers like eucalyptus.
Japanese chisels I think is the next step down the slope. The problem is the massive selection both in terms of blacksmith & chisels styles. I have been fortunate to try a few to find the ones I like.
Japanese planes are my real conundrum, I have tried with various level of failure to make them work but I just have not gotten the hang of them yet.
Then there are Japanese natural stones ohh my lord these are a costly addiction, I am on my second stone and I am $700 down. I warn you once you taste them, they are like crack cocaine. You will wonder how you ever used anything else.

Thank you both very much for fantastic replies.
But there's all ready a possibility of small crack forming .
Very top of the plane collection its very pale ,innocent looking piece of timber with a very thick piece of iron coming through it , I can't remember much more about it
Is this how it all starts http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11...13ae13f8e8.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gabriel

but haven't seen what you produce with your lovely looking tools. Do you lean towards the traditional japanese joinery.

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Gab - You have thrown down the gauntlet - I only use them for fine joinery work only. Here are some photos:

A practice joint in Rock maple & NZ Beech

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A very small cabinet in Australian Sandalwood / European White Oak with an Australian Desert Hardwood highlights (incomplete still need to make a stand in rock maple)

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Display Cabinet in American Grey Elm and stand in American Black Locust

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Practice Joint - through wedged mortice & tenon

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

innocent looking piece of timber with a very thick piece of iron coming through it

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Take it off the shelf, ask for some help, and see how far you slide.

Absolutely amazing stuff! !!
I'm totally in awe!

I wasn't really throwing down a gauntlet, more placing down a white cotton glove (which I could then put on to look at your work with my hands).

Thanks a lot for sharing, I know who I'll be annoying with questions when I finally do start tackling those intricate joints


Matt, next meet up, I'll bring along a book for you to have a read through (it you don't already have a copy) . Toshio Odates 'japanese woodworking tools'. It's a great resource, and introduces some thoughts and ideas behind their tools. He also has a great way of story telling which made me read the book more like a novel than an encyclopedia.


Cheers
Gab

I'm about to PM the BENEVOLENT DICTATOR to ask if the "like this post" and "thanks for this post" buttons can be added to with a new button marked "jealous as all buggery"?
l am currently re-arranging my shed to give a bigger focus on hand tools (and therefore sharpening!) ....... I think l'd better start thinking in Japanese?
fletty

Good buy on the Tsushima Nagura, Thumbsucker.

I expect those larger pieces of that stone are going to become harder and harder to come by.

I'm pleased to hear that you are enjoying using it.

The penultimate natural stone is very important to getting the best out of your final polishing stone, IMO.

Neil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gabriel

Absolutely amazing stuff! !! I'm totally in awe!

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The work of a mere amateur. Who was blessed with the luck of having amazing teachers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeilS

The penultimate natural stone is very important to getting the best out of your final polishing stone, IMO.

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That is it in a nutshell.

Fantastic work thumbsucker

Very nice ,I really liked the little display cabinet on stand ,great detail and good proportions .
Is that for storing the said precious stones in tho ?

But I think this thread should be shut down immediately ,it's getting ridiculous .
Credit cards are getting damaged.
Relationships will be torn apart .
Children will be sold off ,for needed cash .
This may become an epidemic worst than any drug .

Matt[emoji19]

I think Japanese tools have an undeserved reputation for extravagant and costly items. Japanese tools span a range of quality and prices.

For example the two stones I purchased were pricey $250 plus $400, however these stones are massive the size of house bricks, even if I opened a sharpening business and used them for 8 hours a day for the next 40 years I would struggle to wear them out. I could have purchased the exact same stones from the same mine and the same strata for 1/4 of the cost if I had opted for thinner & small stones. However I could have purchased a $45,000 stone from a supper rare mine, mined by a blind mystic who only eats the dew off lotus petals on a full moon.

Would I suggest you purchase or explore Japanese natural my answer would be NO. For the hobby woodworker who does not have the time to spend days and even weeks learning how to use a natural stone, how much water, how much pressure and when to apply said pressure, how to deal with sticksion, how much slurry, what does it mean when the slurry changes colour, when to stop adding water. Not to mention learning to do all of the above freehand, no jigs, is not something most people would not sign up for.

NielS was kind enough to loan me a Tasai chisel valued in the $275 range. I also purchased a Kikuhiromaru at $120 on So's recommendation and I had a new old stock chisels I got of eBay for $65. It gave me an insight in to what your money buys. While the Tasai was a good chisel the Kikuhiromaru was its equal in terms of edge retention and chip resistance at more then half the price, but lacking some of the artistic refinement. The eBay purchase was not only $65 for a 42mm new old stock chisel. The eBay purchase is a very fine chisel. A little more prone to chipping initially if I was careless but even that settled down over time.

I have however tried certain well regarded Japanese chisels that I have found underserving of there high standing. I will not mention names in public. So however has published an article online were he says the same thing were he did some comparative testing of well known brands. But again he does not mention names either. I think some brands get a good reputation because most people purchase a said brand that is recommend to them and having no point for comparison assume this is as good as it gets.

Unfortunately we in the West have little opportunity to compare tools on an even playing field.

Remember you do not need a full 15 or 20 piece set. Only purchase the size you need for the scale you work at. That means for most of us doing domestic furniture a 6mm, 12mm, 18mm & 24mm is all we will ever need. Joinery is sized to the chisel.

Also another caveat with Japanese tools is that you cannot use honing guides. Plane blades and chisels tapper in there length, this means that the sides are Not square to the leading edge. Almost all jigs assume that the sides are square to the leading edge as all Western tools are. For example in a Japanese chisel you must square the leading edge square to the centre of the tang.