Bakewell

Mike Stemple online ...

"I am big on Josiah Bakewell. I have collected his saws for 20 years and have over thirty examples including full sized, back saws, butcher saws and even found a keyhole saw at Martin J. Donnellys auction last year in Avoca. He was considered tbe best saw maker in the US in his day (he died in 1861).

He started in NYC in the early 1840's when he arrived there from England. His saws from his NYC company are very scarce and I only have two. He was invited in 1853 to come to Middleton NY to open and run the Monhagen Saw Works for Wheeler and Madden and they became Wheeler,Madden,&Bakewell. Most of the saws found today are from this era.

He became ill in 1860 and retired and then died in 1861. W&M then invited William Clemson to come over from Boston to make their saws and they became the well known company of Wheeler,Madden,&Clemson. Which was bought by Disston in 1893.

I may have a medallion for your saw out in my shop. (1,200 saws and counting) I have published articles about Bakewell in the Gristmill and the Fine Tool Journal. Bakewell is one of the early makers to have sparked my interest in vintage saws also, Matt."



Me, 2015 ...
"The green one is Monhagen Saw Works -Wheeler, Madden & Bakewell "XLCR", a #8 I think, from 1850-60"


https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...8&d=1427422624


Cheers,
Paul McGee

That's interesting Paul

It looks like Wheeler and Madden were the financiers. I had wondered how the name kept changing.I had thought perhaps they kept having a falling out (a bit like Harry Ferguson of the famed tractor who fell out with everybody). I suppose it is not hard to get sore in a saw industry. Comes with the territory.

Are you able to show any close ups of the medallions. I can see there is a Spear and Jackson and probably a Simonds No.71 or No.72 (1914 - 1916 era) and an interesting saw with the brass guard. And possibly a... No just wild guessing now.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,
I was just linking from here ... https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/report-6-a-193668
They are all back in a similar box at the moment, and no doubt for the medium term "going forward". :)
Cheers,
Paul

I've got a Monhagen.Attachment 425127

Came from Jim Bode a few years back. Never seen much more than WK's write up on them though.

Rob

That's a tidy looking saw. Is there an etch for identification as most saws with a metal reinforcing plate have no medallion?

Regards
Paul

Paul,

No etch, in calling it a Monhagen I'm relying on Jim's identification. It is a very well done saw, nothing Warranted Superior about it.

Regards,
Rob

Rob

Without wanting to put a dampener on the identification I am not sure I would have the same confidence in labeling the saw maker. I would definitely agree with you that it is a very smart looking saw and I did say as much in my earlier post. I suppose what I am leading up to is that the only definitive identification is the etch. As you know I have been caught out with saws bearing the wrong medallion as they are easily swapped.

I don't have a huge amount of information on WMC particularly during the early years other than the detail supplied by Paul in the initial post.

I do have a catalogue from the time (1895) after WMC had been amalgamated into The National Saw Company, which was owned by Disston. WMC had three different models that used a metal reinforcing plate (not that it reinforced anything much to my mind) but none of them looked like your saw. Neither did any of them look like the Disston plate.

These are the WMC models:

Attachment 425186Attachment 425188Attachment 425190

Whilst these saw were not at the bottom of the range they were not at the top. The most expensive WMC saw of the same era, the Star, was $34.00 per dozen for a 26" saw.

and these are the Disston models intended primarily for re-badgeing on behalf of the major hardware stores:

Attachment 425182

Having said all that, it may just be that your model dated from an earlier era. The metal plate, however is very reminiscent of the Simonds version (The Sioux, No.47) which I have been chasing for some while now.

Rather than hijack Paul's thread I may start a new thread on the metal plate saws. They are interesting in that I believe the plate (some manufacturers called it a shield) was purely decoration, a bit like the nib, but was only used on the mid to lower end models. That is not to say I don't like the look of them. I do.

Regards
Paul

Please disregard my comment on your saw looking like the The Sioux. It bear more resemblance to the Disston saws. By the 1918 catalogue the No.082 has disappeared.

Regards
Paul

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Paul,

No etch, in calling it a Monhagen I'm relying on Jim's identification. It is a very well done saw, nothing Warranted Superior about it.

Regards,
Rob

---

Pardon the question, but I hae me doots about that assumption.

My understanding is that there are multiple circumstances under which saws may have been sold as WS. Only one of them being second rate quality.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the saw I have was by another maker, that's why I wrote what I did. I've learned over my time studying old tools, particularly saws, that many 'authorities' don't have much in the way of true authority.:p

The fit and finish of the saw I have is however superior to any other high end saw by any period manufacturer. If this is a second line saw I'd really like to see one of their top shelf products.:U

I don't have much in the way of saw catalogs but these pages show some additional plated saws from Disston. They are copied from a reprint of the Disston 1876 catalog that was available on eBay a few months back.

Attachment 425198Attachment 425197

The handle of the saw I have looks a lot like the #201/2 saws pictured above but the blade has no nib and the toe is very square. No signs of an etch despite the plate being in such good condition that one would be readily apparent. The saw is stamped with a very small 5 stamp at the heel, no other marks anywhere, even under the handle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rob streeper

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the saw I have was by another maker, that's why I wrote what I did. I've learned over my time studying old tools, particularly saws, that many 'authorities' don't have much in the way of true authority.:p

The fit and finish of the saw I have is however superior to any other high end saw by any period manufacturer. If this is a second line saw I'd really like to see one of their top shelf products.:U

---

The world according to Disston business practices, transformed by time into a universal truth.

Rob

I have just started another thread on these metal plate saws, but on looking more closely at your saw, I think it is more like the Disston 082/085 in post #7. Four saw screws and a curved aspect to the inside of the handle rather than a "vee" shape. It may also be an earlier model with those cone head (I think that is what they are called) saw screws. The difference between the 082 and 085 was that one handle was walnut and the other was a walnut finish.

Regards
Paul