Speculation About New Kind of Dust Separator.

About a month ago I saw a short discussion in another forum on a new product introduced by Jet called a Jet Cyclone Separator. It comes in two flavours, a separator on its own and with a bin. I haven't run across any other discussions since.

JET(R) Cyclone Separator | JET(R) Woodworking Tools

JET(R) Cyclone Separator with Bin | JET(R) Woodworking Tools

A YouTube video showing it in action. JET Cyclonic Separator - YouTube

It costs about $150US and $250US for the one with the bin. It isn't sold here in Canada and I suspect not in Australia or New Zealand either.

I understand how it works, thats obvious but I'm curious what people's thoughts were on how efficient it might be? They don't show any instances of fine dust collection, thickness sanders and table saws, just the planer chips so I wonder how well that kind of dust would be separated out?

What would the static pressure losses might be compared to a good cyclone or a Thien baffle?

Would it be scaleable to a 6"/150mm or bigger system?

Being as compact as it is and horizontal it would be a solution for those with low ceilings or hight restrictions in attached sheds. It would also fit under benches or in attic spaces better than most any other cyclone or separator.

It also looks like it would suit 3D printing parts to be assembled into a home brewed version. Probably easier than trying to make one using other means.

I realize at this point comments would be speculative and the only way to know for sure would be to get one in hand to test but I am interested on the opinions people have about it.

Pete

A couple of reviews I’ve seen weren’t too complimentary. One complained of it clogging, the other that it didn’t separate enough dust out.

The back pressure looks like it would be very high so flow loss and fine dust collection will be significant.

The video is not very reassuring, still seems to be a fair bit of material bypassing the "cyclone." Also pretty poor H&S procedures with handling the dust and chips. Seems more like a chip collector to me. It would be next to useless due to constant clogging of the "spiral" inlet with many of the small planers and thicknessers on the market which produce longer shavings rather than chips.

Look at the 33s mark in the video - the outlet hose appears to have a fair bit of discoloration, i.e. dust.

The Video is highly misleading - it shows an overflowing DC collection bag with sawdust spilling out all over the place. Bags on any DC (including a cyclone) should never be let get that full.
To maintain separation efficiency somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3rds full is about when they should be emptied. In that case the sawdust will not overflow the bag and fall all over the floor as shown in the vid vo the exposure to the person emptying the bag(s)is relatively low.
See Dust Exposure while empty DC bags and cleaning filters
If the plastic collection bags are not re-used there's no really exposure issue and even if the bags are reused, it's such a short period of exposure time that a P2 Type mask will easily take care of it.
Of course if you have to empty often then a decent cyclone is well worth having.

I also found the overflowing bag misleading - for a start it holds more than the bin they’re selling, which means that you’d be emptying the bin more often. The fact is that you’ve got a certain amount of dust and chips. Whether you’re emptying a DC bag or a cyclone bin or both you’re still dealing with the same volume of dust and chips.

Looks like an overgrown Dyson

Also, helical planer heads would basically be mandatory because full width chips from straight knives will clog it up in about 10 seconds...

Horizontal cyclone separators are not unusual in industrial processing equipment and, as pointed out, in consumer rugsuckers. The only example I'm aware of for dust collection in hobby woodworking is the Harvey G-700.

The structure is similar, the Harvey being a more sophisticated and complex design.
Attachment 489330

I would guess that pressure loss would be similar to the 4" Super Dust Deputy thus much less than either a Thien tophat or a trash can lid setup. Cut size is probably larger than the SDD and closer to the Thien.

So, (a data free opinion!), I would rank it a close second to the SDD with the Thien and trash lid at the bottom. The SDD and Jet are about the same price, so the simpler plumbing might make the Jet a better choice in a few situations.

I would expect pressure loss and cut size to scale the same as for any cyclone, so pick your hose size and warm up your printer.

I'm 100% certain that if it were superior in fine dust collection, or any other facet, they would have made it.

The fact they didn't is telling.

Its specifically makes absolutely no claims.... just blanket statements of how hard your life currently is.

I despise American advertising. Its hideously misleading - especially those "TV Special" efforts where the hausfrau (or in this case inept wood-jock) can't empty a bloody bag without throwing it halfway around the kitchen/garage.

I appreciate the "findings" of the group as it aligns with what I think. I have no intentions of getting one but do think they might strike a chord with the under 2 hp DC, 4"/100mm, hang air cleaners crowd. They have only been on the market for a few months so only time will tell if Jet will succeed flogging them or if they refine the design.

I don't care for the advertising either but there are a lot of people that overflow the bags regularly. I also don't think the long flex hoses to and from the thing would do much for it's performance but again thats the way many people use their DCs. There is a turning club member here that has a 1 1/2 car garage sized shop with a 2hp DC in the corner. He is using 4"/100mm flex for everything and it is permanently "ducted" that way. He is very happy with it as is. :doh:

I looked at a horizontal cyclone, Industrial Dust Collector Animation - YouTube at one point but when I told the salesman I was comparing it to a CV-Max. He said theirs cost much more and never followed through will any information. Their focus is commercial and industrial business. At one time I did have a chart with the basic dimensions of the different sizes and the 5hp one was almost the same diameter as a 45gal/205L drum. It would have fit a low ceiling install if one wanted to spend the extra money. I have no idea what the efficiencies of it were but they also have a traditional upright version with a short cone. I suspect the two would perform like any of the short cone types sold to us now.

At least Jet has come out with something different rather than rehash what has been. A half point for effort. :wink:

Pete

It took a couple of freeze frames on the video to work out exactly what was happening. The "bullet" deflects the airflow to the aerofoil (not quite an aerofoil but close enough) which induces a low pressure zone in the lee of both it and the "bullet". The bottom half of the chips is deflected directly towards the bucket. In the upper half, the larger chips accumulate in the low pressure zone until gravity takes over and they fall though the airstream into the bucket. Any finer particles would be carried through by the airstream into the outlet.

I suppose if the outlet went outside to atmosphere, it might serve someone's purpose. You get what you pay for.

mick

Glider the vanes at the inlet get the air spinning which helps the air spiral around the bullet. I think that expansion helps to slow the air some contributing to the chips dropping out.

Pete

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QC Inspector

Glider the vanes at the inlet get the air spinning which helps the air spiral around the bullet. I think that expansion helps to slow the air some contributing to the chips dropping out.
Pete

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That may be a factor, Pete. However, I think the whole thing is based on Bernoulli's Principle. The spirals may be there to divert the airflow away from the dead zone of reduced pressure and towards the outer ring. If you freeze the video, you'll see the chips accumulating in the dead zone behind the bullet and between the outer aerofoils. I might be wrong, but it sure looks like that to me.

mick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glider

That may be a factor, Pete. However, I think the whole thing is based on Bernoulli's Principle.

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All cyclonic separators that I've come across rely, to a degree, on a drop in air pressure as well as centripetal force. I'd hazard a guess and say that this particular one relies more heavily than others, but still... :shrug:

By the same token, this IS a cyclonic separator even if it's only real use is as a chip collector. Get the chips outta the mix and you don't have to empty the DC bag & it's lungfuls of nasties anywhere near as often.

I guess it comes down to just where the size differences between caught chip and passed on particulate lies. Chips in the DC bag are acceptable but dust in the chip bin is just... downright annoying.

I'd think about buying one of these JET things - only for use as a chip collector in my home shop - if I didn't already have a 44 gallon drum I rigged with sewer fittings. For the price, it seems comparable to the parts & labour I put into rigging the drum and probably in the same ballpark for effectiveness.

Any CAD wizards want to have a go at modelling it? There's a few free computational fluid dynamics software options that might shed some light on what's going on inside.