Redgum sleepers for joinery

I came across these 8×2 redgum sleepers that had been air drying for 6-7 years. They are the Bunnings variety as far as I can tell. The owners were going to use them for garden edging but never got around to it and has been sitting stacked on the side of the house the whole time. They aren't stacked too well, but hey 6-7 years is 6-7 years

As they didn't exactly follow a meticulous drying process, they are warped all over the place. But they are thick enough that that doesn't matter. Quite a few pieces had cracks/rot/borer holes, but I was able to pick out a few that didn't.

I know this stuff the lowest grade of timber out there, but there really aren't too many defects from what I can tell.

Is it worth a shot dressing them up? Is it going to be stable enough? Has whatever movement that's in the wood already have gotten out by now?

I reckon after 6 or 7 years they'd be OK to use and any cracking / warping would have happened by now.
I'm currently in the process of digging up and re-using some old jarrah sleepers that we got from Bunnings years ago. Some are being re-used in used garden beds the wife wants, but I have also put aside a few of the better pieces for other projects. There's some good wood in it.

It really depends on what you're planning on making out of them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Redgum tends to move around like a cut snake until it gets really old. Then it's harder than nails.

I love turning redgum and have several pieces that I turned around 20 years ago. Even today they noticably change shape depending on the weather. One ovals up to around 15mm out of round one day, then can be almost triangular the next. But they're decorative and I think they look gorgeous. ;)

So it's not really suitable for jewellery boxes, fine cabinetry or anything where precision matters. Except, perhaps, in small pieces or inlays where you can control the movement.

BUT, for items such as an adirondack chairs or slatted tables, etc. where a bit of movement is undetectable to the untrained eye then it can be used quite succesfully.

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It really depends on what you're planning on making out of them.

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I guess the pieces are the right size for a dining table or bedhead or shelves. I get that there is "fine" furniture with proper joinery and there is more rustic style, and you only tend to see red gum in rustic styles.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again; Redgum tends to move around like a cut snake until it gets really old. Then it's harder than nails.

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Come to think of it, there were pieces where the movement was really gnarly, and those I can say those were done. But they were cracked, and I didn't take those). Which means my pieces may not have finished drying? I can dry them for a while longer. I plan to dress them down in the shop gradually until they climatise to the indoor environment until they reach final dimensions.

Question about air drying - it doesn't reach the dryness of kiln dried, but wouldn't it go back up to the environment anyway?

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Originally Posted by yoboseyo

Question about air drying - it doesn't reach the dryness of kiln dried, but wouldn't it go back up to the environment anyway?

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as far as i understand, there's some structural difference between timber that's still green, vs timber that has fully seasoned but then gotten wet again, even if both are at the same moisture content. though i don't really understand what that difference is, i just have a vague idea that seasoned-but-wet timber is "better" than still-green timber. maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm/refute/explain...

Yes the timber will take up moisture to match the environment it is in.
With strip hardwood flooring for instance it is recommended to store the timber in the area it is being laid for 3 to 4 weeks to let it acclimatise to the humidity levels it will laid in. It is difficult to do as often when it is new construction you have ‘ wet trades’ still about and the A/C is not up and running so can becomes a futile exercise

Unless they were stickered & air allowed to circulate between them, the amount of "drying" is probably near nil for the sleepers in the middle of the stack. The rule of thumb of "a year per inch of thickness" applies only to properly stacked stuff & in any case, most of our really dense hardwoods take a bit longer to equilibrate. Using a moisture meter might help figure out where it's at, but in a case like this the MC is liable to be all over the shop depending where the piece was in the stack & if it was more or less protected.

My approach to any wood like this is to put it aside in a place where it can get good air circulation & wait for a year or so to see what happens. I've had mixed experiences with river red gum - some was like Skew describes, some remained quite stable (& it didn't seem to matter if it was figured or straight-grained). Some was actually quite good to work with hand tools, some was a complete mongrel (though none has been as difficult as the worst of the forest red gum I've struck!). Both species get pretty damn hard when the MC drops to 10 or 12% - that's a given, but the rrg doesn't seem to get quite as hard as frg in my experience (which is limited to wood from maybe a 1/2 dozen separate trees of each species so not very comprehensive)....

Cheers,

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Originally Posted by IanW

Unless they were stickered & air allowed to circulate between them, the amount of "drying" is probably near nil for the sleepers in the middle of the stack.

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That's true. Can you recommend any moisture meters on the low end?

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Originally Posted by yoboseyo

That's true. Can you recommend any moisture meters on the low end?

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Me? No, sorry, I never use one. Imo, unless used carefully & methodically (something I'm not good at!), moisture meters are likely to be not that much more precise than educated guesswork. When I really needed to know the MC of a given lot of wood, I dried carefully selected samples in a lab drying oven. In retirement, I don't have access to lab gear any more, but my wood stash has been accumulated over so many years, I can be pretty sure anything I'm ready to work with is as equilibrated as it's ever going to be.....
:U
Cheers,

Tell me if you have ever seen an 8x2 under a railway track, no you haven't. So an 8x2 is not a sleeper (Bunning have a lot to answer for) It is just an 8x2. A "Sleeper" size is 9" x 5".

I built a workbench from 8x3 redgum sleepers.
They moved a bit in the first few months, splitting my carefully jointed top.
So i drilled it right through crossways, put all thread through and bolted them back.
Hasn't moved since, about 20 years.
(well, i moved the bench twice but that takes some serious effort, its not light...)

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Originally Posted by rod1949

Tell me if you have ever seen an 8x2 under a railway track, no you haven't. So an 8x2 is not a sleeper (Bunning have a lot to answer for) It is just an 8x2. A "Sleeper" size is 9" x 5".

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That's actually what the product is called, though. Does a sleeper imply railway sleeper? I know well enough not to use used railway sleepers anyway

If they are 8 x 2 and 6-7 years old they should be air dry by now.

I agree with what others have said about it continuing to move. the extent of the possible movement depends on which part of the log it comes from and how it is cut up.
If its a face cut ie look at the tree rings on the ends of the pieces. If there are are long curved grain lines going across the 8" wide section that's a face cut - these'll move more.
If the grain lines run straight across the shorter (2") section then that'll be closer to a quarter sawn cut - these move much less.

One of my mates has a 25 year old river red gum feature shelf just below am= internal window (shelf is part of the window frame). It's made of a face cut (250 x 75mm) and it cups from, straight across to dipping a few mm in the middle every year.

Hi all,

Interesting to hear different people's experiences with redgum, having milled and dried furniture grade redgum for over 20 years. What I have found over the years is that redgum, when cut from large mature logs, racked out and dried for a minimum of 5 years, the timber performs very well. The greatest problem I have seen for the end user is the timber has been milled from small logs (less than 600mm diameter) and not dried properly. Being one of the most readily available timbers in Victoria and NSW, most people learn there milling skills on small redgums, but are impatient with the drying process. Ebay, Gumtree and FB Market place are the common places these slabs are sold for a few hundred dollars, usually after about 2 years of drying as the sawmilling hobbyist is keen to cash them in as they 'feel' dry.

The old 'year per inch' works ok for most timbers, but I found you need more for redgum. Yes, if its put in direct sunlight at a window, over a dishwasher, around a kitchen sink, near a heater vent, then yes, most timbers will struggle to stay dead flat. And yes, back sawn is traditionally less stable than quarter sawn in most timbers, even blackwood which is commonly cut on the back off to show the distinct grain with cup when exposed to moisture.

I have customers who use stunningly high grade redgum for intricate jewelry boxes that range from $1000-3000 per box or $10k dining tables with no issues. But they appreciate the effort taken to create high grade timber and are happy to pay accordingly. Sure, I have plenty of $200 coffee table slabs kicking around the mill for those on a budget, but if you want first grade, stable timber, it starts with the milling and drying process. Understanding how to look after your logs, what can be cut from a log, how to cut it, when to cut it (late March to late August), when to take it out of the rack (strip racks down in Jan and Feb), correct timber sealing techniques at the time of milling, strict racking tolerances, etc, etc. It all contributes to the success the end user enjoys.

I look at it this way: if I'm blessed to be milling a 300 year old windblown tree, then waiting 5 years is nothing if it means the tree is truly respected for the timber it produces that will be crafted into furniture to be handed down for generations to come.

Just my observations from the other side of the mill.

Cheers,

James.:2tsup: