SCM's sawstop version

SCM Blade off technology updates

I have a panel saw sitting in SCM's warehouse in Italy waiting to be delivered, while waiting, SCM presented their version of "Sawstop" in Oct 2022.

I was interested to see if this can be added to my panel saw, below are the response from SCM

• at today there is not a fixed period, yet. What SCM has shown during Ligna 2022 was a prototype (the functioning is through smart sensors which detect in real time the object that is entering in the "monitoring zone". These sensors are positioned in the sliding table around the blade and also in the overhead blade protection, so the danger perimeter). Our tech offices are working for the CE certifications and patents (which are extremely long and complicated procedures). Before other 6/7 months it is not possible to give you a more accurate information regarding when the system can be launched into the market
• price: approx. 11,000 € (optional item list price, for L'Invincibile si X)
• unless the videos already in YouTube there are no commercial materials to spread out, due to the reason indicate in the point 1.
• unfortunately not possible to retrofit already machines (electronics and mechanical reasons).
  
  I guess the cost will come down over time? 11,000 Euro is a lot of money for an optional item.
  
  
  FYI only.
  
  Blade Off Demo | Xylexpo, Afternoon October 12th - YouTube

I have an Altendorf F45 with a 3.8M sliding bed cutting capacity, it cuts very accurately and I paid $2.5K for it.

I learned my trade back in the early 1980's and I was surrounded by the machines that I now look to buy, these old machines will make any piece of Furniture/Joinery I wish to make, I am not into mass production or looking for special electronic safety features, because I don't have any employees to protect or think about getting more production out of them.

If I was in my 20's with a 40 year career in front of me then maybe I would look at investing in new machines, but I'm not and I like the simple minimal electronics of the old machines, so I don't get any chance of a circuit board failure stopping me from using the rise & fall on my Altendorf.

So in short what I am looking to say is I could not justify paying $11K for that option.

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Originally Posted by Camelot

I have an Altendorf F45 with a 3.8M sliding bed cutting capacity, it cuts very accurately and I paid $2.5K for it.

I learned my trade back in the early 1980's and I was surrounded by the machines that I now look to buy, these old machines will make any piece of Furniture/Joinery I wish to make, I am not into mass production or looking for special electronic safety features, because I don't have any employees to protect or think about getting more production out of them.

If I was in my 20's with a 40 year career in front of me then maybe I would look at investing in new machines, but I'm not and I like the simple minimal electronics of the old machines, so I don't get any chance of a circuit board failure stopping me from using the rise & fall on my Altendorf.

So in short what I am looking to say is I could not justify paying $11K for that option.

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Couldnt agree more. I have a 2013(?) Griggio Unica 3.8m slider, smooth and precise, I have not needed to calibrate it since I bought 4-5 years ago for a fraction of new price.

If I have guys working for me I may have to get this feature to please H&S overlord.... still, at 11k Euro that is one huge ask.

An 11k saw might end up cheaper then the bill if an employee cuts his fingers off.

Scm i dont think are aimed at the home handy man of saws. Sawstop (and their patent) have kinda got them selfs into that area and at that price point ($5000 and below)

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Originally Posted by havabeer69

An 11k saw might end up cheaper then the bill if an employee cuts his fingers off.

Scm i dont think are aimed at the home handy man of saws. Sawstop (and their patent) have kinda got them selfs into that area and at that price point ($5000 and below)

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It's not $11K for the saw, just the option, not sure what the saw costs without that option, but must be at least another $20K.

I still have a full set of fingers, so I guess I must be lucky to get through all these years without that $11K option

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Originally Posted by Camelot

It's not $11K for the saw, just the option, not sure what the saw costs without that option, but must be at least another $20K.

I still have a full set of fingers, so I guess I must be lucky to get through all these years without that $11K option

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If you did lose two fingers.... would you pay $11k to have them back? You can still have high quality work practices and in the end $11k is a very cheap insurance policy for your hands

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Originally Posted by havabeer69

If you did lose two fingers.... would you pay $11k to have them back? You can still have high quality work practices and in the end $11k is a very cheap insurance policy for your hands

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I think good working practice is always better than relying on some technology, this technology could well become the norm and operators start to get sloppy because they believe it will never fail.

Also what if it's glitchy in that it drops the blade when it shouldn't and causes more downtime.

Then while the boss isn't around there will be operators wanting to see how well this option works by dropping their sausage sizzle on there a few times a week just to show their mates how well it works, until one day the blade doesn't come back up due to the stickiness form the tomato sauce covering the sausages blocking the mechanism, you get the picture?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camelot

I think good working practice is always better than relying on some technology, this technology could well become the norm and operators start to get sloppy because they believe it will never fail.

Also what if it's glitchy in that it drops the blade when it shouldn't and causes more downtime.

Then while the boss isn't around they will be operators wanting to see how well this option works by dropping their sausage sizzle on there a few times a week just to show their mates how well it works, until one day the blade doesn't come back up due to the stickiness form the tomato sauce covering the sausages blocking the mechanism, you get the picture?

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i guess my point above (which I didn't convey very all at) is like the taco girl says:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...6/759/both.jpg

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Originally Posted by Camelot

It's not $11K for the saw, just the option, not sure what the saw costs without that option, but must be at least another $20K.

I still have a full set of fingers, so I guess I must be lucky to get through all these years without that $11K option

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latest pricing for an L'Invincibile si X is about $100k AUD for a base model. note this is listed price, which makes 11k euro look ok if you are spending 100k AUD on a saw. $20k AUD to save yourself from potential lawsuit if an employee cut his finger?

would be interesting to see the maintenance cost of it if it needed a service/repair/fault.

I am of two minds about this. I note that Felder offers a similar thing on only one specific niche model, Martin not at all. I subscribe to the theory that a panel saw is inherently safer than a tablesaw, but that extra safety is because you operate the machine differently and rarely use the rip fence.

The times I have injured myself were expensive…even for just a few sutures with not much permanent damage. That’s as a hobbyist. $20K in a pro shop would be a no-brainer for me.

If only there was a reliable way of detecting fatigue or distraction most accidents would be avoided.

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Originally Posted by Greg Q

I am of two minds about this. I note that Felder offers a similar thing on only one specific niche model, Martin not at all. I subscribe to the theory that a panel saw is inherently safer than a tablesaw, but that extra safety is because you operate the machine differently and rarely use the rip fence.

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This is a real puzzle to me. If money was no an issue I would definitely buy the Format4. As money is an issue, I had planned to get a sawstop and I almost pressed the button during the sales at Carbatec. At the same time I started to look at pannel saws and convinced myself that I am more likely to have an accident when pushing a piece in front of the blade. The problem is that I am buying a short slidder so it will demand a bit of strong will to rip with the track saw or the bandsaw instead of succumbing to the temptation of using the rip fence.

Well, you will still find the hi-lo rip fence, riving knife and blade guard better than the average saw. With good work practices and proper push sticks you will be ok.

I glued magnets to my push sticks and that alone has helped.

I have a 2m slider and lots of long boards so I feel your pain. At least with a short slider you wont have an extended chassis to have to lean over when you are ripping. I think the two best slider sizes are 1.3 and 3.8m

Greg

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Originally Posted by Greg Q

I am of two minds about this. I note that Felder offers a similar thing on only one specific niche model, Martin not at all. ...

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My understanding is that the European sensing/blade retract system was developed by a consortium of most European saw makers and that it will be adopted by most.

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... I subscribe to the theory that a panel saw is inherently safer than a tablesaw, but that extra safety is because you operate the machine differently .... .

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This is certainly born out by the accident statistics. There is also probably a cultural difference in the approach to safety between "slider" countries such as Germany, Austria and Switzerland as compared to saw bench countries like USA, UK and Australia.

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Originally Posted by spicko

This is a real puzzle to me. If money was no an issue I would definitely buy the Format4. ...

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But first, you would have to build a new workshop to fit it in.