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Hi all,
Question for you guys - is it worthwhile spending the extra $$ to buy Lie Neilsen or Clinton Hand planes ? or shoudl I stick to a no name or say a Stanley ?
Whats the likelyhood of being able to buy a decent 2nd hand one ?
I like the idea of having something that could become a heirloom or will last my lifetime... The wife however goes Hmmmm...
Cheers,
Zed
Zed,
I have four Lie Nielsen planes and a Lie Nielsen dovetail saw. Fantastic to use and I am thinking very seriously about buying a No 5 Lie Nielsen.
They are expensive but wonderful to use and give excellent and pleasing results.
The downside of course is that shoddy work can all be blamed on the woodworker without any doubt towards the tools.
If you can afford them you will not be disappointed.
Value for money? I think so but I am sure others would disagree so I buy them and they don't - as simple as that.
- Wood Borer
Hi Zed,if you can afford to. then go with the Clifton or the Lie-Nielsen,they're both quality brands and well produced.
Buying second hand is OK providing you have done your homework and good Stanley planes pre 1950 are getting harder to find unless you're prepared to spend big and in most cases off shore in the Auction houses of the States or Europe and then you would be buying blind.
There is nothing overly wrong with buying a modern day Stanley,Record etc but you would need to fine tune it before getting good use out of it and the same will also last given a good caring home.
You are obviously interested in metal planes but also consider the range of wooden planes which may offer up an alternative for you.
Here's an interesting site to check out that offer up different to Carba-Tec, and Mik International.
http://www.dick-gmbh.de
Cheers:)
......"I like the idea of having something that could become a heirloom or will last my lifetime..."
Hi Zed
You need to decide which direction is most important to you, heirloom verses non-heirloom. You can get a fine plane that fits into either category.
First off, both the LN and the Clifton planes have enviable reputations and you would be well-served by either. Both are based on the Stanley Bed Rock design. The Clifton is considerably cheaper than the LN, and I don't think that there is much to choose between them in quality. The LN probably has the edge in this area. Personally, I think the Cliftons are drop dead sexy!!
Secondly, neither of these plane makers would qualify as makers of heirloom items. Their products will likely last a lifetime or two, but the fact is that products that are in current production are not rare products. Anyone can simply purchase one off the shelf. They do not appreciate in value (but such is the reputation of LN and Clifton that one of their second hand planes would sell for near retail price).
If you want an heirloom plane then you need to look to something that is out of production, where supply is less than the demand. The good news is that these do not need to cost as much as a new LN or Clifton. I can't speak for Sydney, but Perth is Old Tool Hell. Consequently, you need to keep an eye on eBay for pre-WW II Stanley or Record planes. Expect to pay between $50 - $150 depending on age and condition. Check out Patrick Leach's website for all the inside info/history and you'll soon be an expert: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
The forerunner to the LN and Clifton, the plane on which these are based, was the Stanley Bed Rock. These are much dearer but still can be had (although you will need to explore the USA eBay website for one). I recently purchased a 1931 Stanley Bed Rock #604 (the same size as a Stanley/LN/Clifton #4) in good condition on Australian eBay for $150. It looked like hell but cleaned up superbly. A nice touch of these older planes are the Rosewood handles, now unobtainable. I have ordered a new LN blade and cap combination to use in it (including shipping from the States this comes to $90). These blades are significantly thicker than the original blades and offer superior performance. I have stored the original blade and cap. So I now have a very collectable, heirloom plane - one as good as a new LN or Clifton - and the total is $240, which is much, much less than a new Clifton. You could knock off another $100 if you went for the non-Bed Rock variety.
If the above (meant only as an example) sounds too much work, then go for a new LN or Clifton. Personally, one of the pleasures I find in handwork is the connection to craftsmen of the past. I love the history and mystique as much as I enjoy creating something. Restoring old tools is therefore not a chore but adds to the satisfaction.
I hope this helps.
Regards from Perth
Derek
....."I have four Lie Nielsen planes and a Lie Nielsen dovetail saw. Fantastic to use and I am thinking very seriously about buying a No 5 Lie Nielsen. "
Wood Borer, you must have been very good in a previous life!!
Enviously yours,
Derek
Derek,
That allows me to be terrible in this life.
Actually the No 5 might be some time off since I offered my resignation on Monday.
No job to go to, no more income but no more stress or playing games pretending idiots are bright. I might even have time to have lunch soon instead of working through every lunchtime of my 10 - 11 hour day.
My boss refuses to accept my resignation so we are in limbo currently. I do have about 5 months annual leave accrued over the last 7 years.
- Wood Borer