Jet Or Dvr ?

[hotrod100]

Hi Guy's
I'm sure you guy's get fed up of the never ending "LATHE DEBATE",
but as a newby' I really value the view's of the more experienced.
Being in the market for a new lathe I had more or less decided on the Jet 1642 16"swing, 42"bc , cast iron bed & stand, electronic variable speed etc retail's for approx $2500.00 (that being close to lathe budget, as we have to leave dough for all the extra's turning, tools, chuck,etc) when I suddenly woke up to the fact that Iwas in the same price range as the DVR 3000 (Less stand).
Having heard the DVR 3000 mentioned on this site quite a bit,and getting good rap's, my question is which one to go with or is there another lathe around that price range that I should be considering? as usual any advice more than welcome. :confused:
Thank's Rod

[RETIRED]

Would you buy a Torana as against a Mercedes?

[ozwinner]

Hey, whats wrong with a T runa?


Al

[echnidna]

Hey ,
Which one's the torana?

[ozwinner]

The one wid the T runa badges silly.


Al

[gatiep]

Rod
If you are really serious about woodturning and want to spend that kind of money, have a look at the Vicmarc VL-175 electronic for about $3375 with the stand. They are available without a stand but I don't know what the price is. The stand is substantial, so the price must be a fair bit.
The VL-175 is a "real lathe",made in Australia and the kind of once in a lifetime buy.

[Kev Y.]

Rod, as an unbiased member, BUY THE DVR, you can not go wrong, mine has been in the shed now for two years, best investment I ever made.

Kev

[Jim Carroll]

The DVR can do one thing every other lathe cannot do and that is increase torque under load.
All other lathes ,belt drive , variable speed loose torque under load. The DVR electonics measures the load as it is working and as you increase the load with a heavier cut the torque increases so keeping a constant speed.By keeping a constant speed you dont have to stop the cut you are doing and take a lighter cut. By keeping a constant cut you finish up with an even cut, by stoping and starting all the time you start to get the rippled effect. Harder to clean up. proved this a couple of years ago at the Phillip Island Turn around , with large bowl gouge in hand he laid into a bowl blank and the lathe kept driving . Everyone was impressed. With the same type of cut on other lathes there would have been belt slip.

[rsser]

Jim's right, and I believe the newer models now have a slower speed than version 1 (which I think ran at an unhandy 200-300 rpm slowest speed).

The DVR is not however as solidly made as the Vicmarc 175 in my view, which comes standard with a metre between centres bed. And yes, it is available in bench version, and that's how I bought mine, but by the time I had a steel stand built to order and the controls wired up (they are mounted in the stand normally) I didn't save much of the $600 initial price difference.

The 175 comes with a very solid outboard turning attachment too.

[Jim Carroll]

The new versions have a low speed of 100rpm .
They come standard with 600mm between centres and you can turn 400mm over the bed which for the large majority of woodturners is more than adequate, granted the Vic Marc is double the weight and longer in the bed but for the average woodturner this is not required. How many times do you turn table legs or large bowl blanks , keeping in mind the DVR can turn 740mm with the outrigger.

[gatiep]

Quote " for the average woodturner this is not required." !!!!!!!

Jim
Sorry mate but your last reply really shoots your previous one about the increased torque down. Now how many times will the ordinary woodworker deliberately try and stall a lathe that has sufficient power?
did it to prove a point, sure it works but in everyday woodturning it is of zero importance.

I have taken delivery of a new Vicmarc 175 with 1.5 hp this morning. I actually ordered a special build with a 2 hp motor and electronics to do 30 to 3000 rpm. In other words the same as the 200 and 300 versions. This was because I have very special projects in mind for which I need the 340 m/min or even less speed at the circumfrence of what I want to attach to the headstock.
Unfortunately Vicmarc, after quoting on the above specs and saying that it can be built, sent a lathe at 1.5 hp (1.1 kw) and in actual fact it does 62 rpm on the lowest pulley setting. Before taking delivery of it the local supplier phoned Vicmarc and they confirmed that the lathe they sent was 1.5 hp AND that it does 30 RPM! According to them it is physically impossible to fit a 2 hp motor to the VL175 lathe. What a load of bull!
I tested the lathe on getting home: At the high pully ratio it does a minimum of 186 RPM and on the low ratio it does 62 RPM. The electronic readout for the motor says 90 RPM. Seems that Vicmarc's rev counter is not working too well, but at 62 rpm, its easy enough to count the rpm.
Vicmarc has a very nice product BUT unfortunately they have no idea about customer relations or giving feedback. It also seems that whoever the suppliers speak to have no idea of what the specs of the equipment that they build are. In my case it is definately true, as I have been on the local suppliers case and they have been on to Vicmarc. It seems to be a case of you pay what we want and we supply whatever we want.
A pity though, with such an attitude it won't take long for them to get a reputation that is not favourable. If I have my facts correct, they are the only lathe manufacturer left in Australia. MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm
This experience has surely taken the excitement and fun out of buying a $3600 plus lathe.

[rsser]

Gatiep is right on the money in taking as a starting point that the best lathe is the lathe that will allow you to do what you want to do. Obviously no one unit will be optimised for every application; it's a question of trade-offs. You have to be clear on what your priorities are. For me, eg. I'm happy taking my cutting slower as long as a solid outboard tool rest will allow me to work on larger and irregular pieces.

But yes, poor customer service is not matter of trade-off in lathe design, and it's not hard to get right. Teknatool have a better name in this respect.

[RETIRED]

did it to prove a point, sure it works but in everyday woodturning it is of zero importance

I very rarely express an opinion on this board as I try to remain neutral.

I turn wood for a living, speed is of the utmost importance.

I am not a fan of variable speed lathes for the following reasons:
1: I cannot fix electronics if they foul up and I can't stop to wait a week and pay someone a fortune to fix it.
2: Every variable speed lathe that I have tried I stop dead in its tracks because of the loss of torque when taking what I call a reasonable cut. The DVR is the only lathe that I have tried that came close to keeping up with the way and speed at which I turn. I don't have time to muck about waiting for the lathe to speed up or reset the switch because it overheated.

We run 3 HP motors on most of our lathes with the weight of the motor being the only tensioning. I have come close to stalling but never stopped one of those those.

If you want a true variable speed lathe that does not lose torque from 0-20,000 revs there is only one way to do it in my opinion and that is to use hydraulic drives.

The lathe here http://www.ubeaut.com.au/woodstuf.htm was intended to have hydraulics but I ran out of time and fitted tried and true pulleys and belts with the option of fitting reduction gears in the drive line. 82 speeds from 37rpm-27,000 but the motor can't drive above 8,000 revs and that is scary enough.

[ptc]

what about a symtec ?
made in oz.
ptc

[John Saxton]

Joe. a point here in that I recall some time back someone else had trouble with Vicmarc and apparently didn't get satisfaction from them.

They have an edge on the market being a local producer but that is no reason to send out something you didn't order in terms of your specs.
In my view I would have not paid for the lathe without first checking it out in the agents shop!
Vicmarc can only do themselves harm in the market by being dictatorial and not adhering to client demand or at least making some attempt to communicate to the person/clientele concerned :mad:

hotrod 100,have you also got access to a local woodturning club that may also offer up some advice for you in your choice of the Jet or the DVR3000?
There were a couple of folk on this BB who went with the DVR3000 and were reasonably happy with it but I hanen't seen comment on the Jet to date but thats not to say the Jet isn't suitable for if like all other Jet products a lot of good thought goes into their product and they seldom get real bad press.
Good luck
Cheers