Turning chisels made from old files

[ClintO]

I placed a ridiculous bid on 10 turning chisels not expectig to win them, guess what I am now the proud owner of 10 chisels that have been made from old files.
They are beautifully made, re-handled and perfectly sharpened, obviously done by someone who cares and that makes me like them more
I am just curious how the file steel will compare to the more conventionally made modern (or old) turning chisels.

[dabbler]

Pictures ?

[tea lady]

Files are apparently to brittle really to be used as turning chisels. Its the type of thing that will prolly be OK till you have a monumental catch and it shatters. Turning chisels can take a bit of pummeling.

[Sturdee]

Depends on the age of the files used, thickness of the files, the tools it's made into and whether the metal has been retreated to make it less brittle.


Wouldn't use modern files as tool steel blanks cost the same soI would only use old ones and only for scrapers and parting tools.


Peter.

[issatree]

Hi ClintO,
Files are fine, PROVIDED, they have been heat treated.
Both Tea Lady & Sturdee have valid opinions.
I really think you should treat them or even ask the Seller if he did anything with them.
So as we understand it, they have No File Marks on them, & maybe shortened a bit as well.
I have 4 Files in my Tools, & 3 are used as Scrapers & 1 as a Parting Tool.
They don't last a long time, say 10 - 15 mins. of continuous use, then need to be Sharpened again.

[ClintO]

They appear to be quite old, certainly heavy weight, 5 of them a Wiltshire, the others have their marks removed
Most of them are about 500mm long
Any idea of the wood?

[Avery]

Don't know about the files, but the handles look great.

[issatree]

Some look to be Oregan.

[IanW]

Clint, I've been re-using old files for various tools most of my life - a habit you pick up growing up on a farm with a forge & basic metal-working gear. As Issatree says, you do need to be aware that they are much harder than regular HSS tools in their 'raw' state, but if the files are reasonably heavy cross-section, the liklihood of shattering one doing spindle turning is pretty remote. Different ball-game if you are into great big gnarly bowl blanks - in that case I would definitely be checking if they were tempered back a bit, and wearing a full face shield when trying them.

I used shortened 10" files ground with metal type cutting edges for turning brass on my wood lathe, before I got a 'proper' metal lathe (if you want to turn metal on your wood lathe, do it at VERY SLOW speed!). Still use them for turning a neat end on fitted ferrules, etc. These files are not tempered, and when I had a couple of catches whilst learning to use them properly, the lathe stalled, but they haven't ever broken. I also use an old file as a narrow parting tool. This one was annealed, then re-hardened. It was done by pure guess-work, so I'm not sure how hard it is on the Rockwell scale, but it's not a lot softer than originally, judging by the way it grinds. It gets a fair bit of use, & seems to keep its edge at least as well as my HCS 'regular' parting tool. (Which I think is a Sorby, but it's so long since I bought it (~35 years) I can't remember, & the etch has long since faded into the oxide background).

Without knowing where the wood comes from, it is near impossible to id, but it reminds me a lot of Honey Locust (Gleditsia triacanthos), native to N.E. North America. There are a few grown in the south of Aust, but it's not comon. The wood is as tough as they come, & makes excellent handles, so if that's what you have, you won't have to worry about breaking them.

Got a couple of loose ferrules, there, though.....

Cheers,

[ClintO]

Thanks for the advice.
I will use them sensibly, just in case, but I certainly wont be doing too much in the way of heavy duty turning without a lathe upgrade

[orraloon]

I have a couple of scrapers made from files that came with my first lathe. I have always been aware of how brittle they can be so only use them for a fine finishing scrape. Even on large bowls too. I find they take a good edge so are ideal for this.
Regards
John

[ClintO]

I contacted the guy I bought them from and they were made by an old pattern maker who has since passed on.
For $40 I think I did OK, with the provisos mentioned.
I see no discolouration which I would imagine would be an after effect of heat treating
The old file teeth have been mostly polished off which might also have removed the discolouration

[RETIRED]

The way pattern makers use tools is a little different than a turner uses them.

Their work is mainly scraping and removing small amounts at a time to within .010" or finer.

Used as scrapers they should be ok for fine cuts with rest close as others have said.

Personally I would not use a file and would never condone it.

[BobL]

It is very easy to temper old files to a more reliable level of hardness by heating them them in an oven at about 240ºC for about an hour.
A small problem is that most ovens do not have a temperature sensor that is accurate and most will over read their actual temperature and unless it is fan force will have a significant temp variability within the oven.
(I'm fortunate to be able to read my oven's temp using a calibrated thermocouple)
To be sure they reach 240ºC place then on a chunky piece of steel or ally at the top of the oven.

Another problem with old files is that they are likely to shatter/crack/break along the lines of the teeth. Ideally these should be ground off before being used as tools which is what I always do when making tools out of files like these.

[BlackbuttWA]

From experience....Do NOT use files. Unless you know a metallurgist.

I stupidly used a file before I bought some chisels, not knowing any different.
I had a catch, I was left holding the handle & a very sharp pointed section of file.
Even when I cleared the shed to move house I still didn't find the other half.

I didn't touch the lathe for about 5 years.

HTH

Col