red cedar candlesticks

[smiife]

Hi guys,
A while ago a guy asked me if i would like some
red cedar!!! ? I of course said yes you bet I would!!
So as a," thank you",, I have made a pair of candle sticks
for him, hope he likes them, any comments and advice
welcome as always
So here they are warts and all,,,,,, worm holes, cracks
checks and scratches,,,,,,,,
Candle sticks with character!!

[chuck1]

Looking good smiife, do you have a non combustible piece between candle and base? Cedar always makes the shed smell good!

[Christos]

Simple clean lines on the design.

[Bluegum]

Nice work there smife. Great finish

[Cliff Rogers]

[smiife]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the comments , I appreciate all
of them ,
I dropped them off today and he really like them
so everyone is happy , he got his candlesticks
and i have another load of cedar on it, s way

[artful bodger]

Looking good smiife, do you have a non combustible piece between candle and base? Cedar always makes the shed smell good!

That is an excellent question Chuck.
I was wondering the same thing myself.
The first candle stick holders I made decades ago were turned between centres,then off centre, then carved.
I drank too much the first time I used them and fell asleep without putting the candles out.......
In the morning the candlesticks were gone. there was a burn mark on the table where they stood.Luckily the table did not catch on fire too!.
Could have been deadly. It was a share house with lots of people in it.
Never been a big fan of timber candlestick holders(without non combustible piece)since.

[smiife]

That is an excellent question Chuck.
I was wondering the same thing myself.
The first candle stick holders I made decades ago were turned between centres,then off centre, then carved.
I drank too much the first time I used them and fell asleep without putting the candles out.......
In the morning the candlesticks were gone. there was a burn mark on the table where they stood.Luckily the table did not catch on fire too!.
Could have been deadly. It was a share house with lots of people in it.
Never been a big fan of timber candlestick holders(without non combustible piece)since.

Hi chuck & a.b
In answer to your question.........NO!
I guess when I make candlesticks like these
or the spiral ones I make , I would not expect
anyone to actually light them up
I should have titled them ornamental candle sticks
The recipient said he would not light them , he would
just liked to look at them,
hopefully he doesn, t get "arms and list" and forgets them
If he does light them up !!!
Which brings us to the question ????
Do you think If something did happen,,,,,,,,,,,! would it be my fault?

[artful bodger]

Hi chuck & a.b
In answer to your question.........NO!
I guess when I make candlesticks like these
or the spiral ones I make , I would not expect
anyone to actually light them up
I should have titled them ornamental candle sticks
The recipient said he would not light them , he would
just liked to look at them,
hopefully he doesn, t get "arms and list" and forgets them
If he does light them up !!!
Which brings us to the question ????
Do you think If something did happen,,,,,,,,,,,! would it be my fault?

Don't want to seem like a paranoid alarmist here Smifey, BUT.....just say for instance the recipients of the candlestick holders got BBQ'd I reckon the legal buck would stop with you. Cautious furniture makers take out product insurance to safeguard against things going pear shaped.
Doubt any insurer would give you a quote on "Burnable Candlestick holders"
Gotta think further than just the recipient too. Other folk may be tempted to use them when recipients are not there.
Too add fuel to the fire(so to speak) I have actually repaired candlestick holders other people have burnt! Because they had sentimental value.

[Mobyturns]

Don't want to seem like a paranoid alarmist here Smifey, BUT.....just say for instance the recipients of the candlestick holders got BBQ'd I reckon the legal buck would stop with you. Cautious furniture makers take out product insurance to safeguard against things going pear shaped.
Doubt any insurer would give you a quote on "Burnable Candlestick holders"
Gotta think further than just the recipient too. Other folk may be tempted to use them when recipients are not there.
Too add fuel to the fire(so to speak) I have actually repaired candlestick holders other people have burnt! Because they had sentimental value.

Smifey,

The candle sticks look good mate, nice turning.

I agree with some of the points raised about fire safety. These days it pays to be prudent and take reasonable steps in the manufacture of items like candlesticks that carry more risk than other items we make. There are Australian standards and also other legislative requirements to be met for such items.

Most of the issues with candlesticks are about the end users placement of the object near other flammable items; the stability of the candle stick and the ease at which it can be knocked or blown over, hence the potential to start a fire.

I contacted our Office of Fair Trading & then Product Safety Australia in Nov 2011 about an Australia wide Product Ban on “combustible candle holders …. if they catch on fire and remain on fire for more than five seconds” and received the following reply (I have highlighted the parts in bold) Link to Product Ban https://www.productsafety.gov.au/con.../itemId/981262

"Geoff
The inquiry you have made through our Product Safety Australia website has been forwarded to me for a response.

The issue you have raised relates to a material (wood) which may well burn over time, however in the context of a candle and a candle holder product, is not likely to be regarded as 'combustible'.

The ban refers to holders that combust, (which ignite or are inflammable) - that is, the candle burns down to such a level in the normal use of the product, that the heat from it is capable of igniting the material and keeping the flame burning continuously for five or more seconds. Wooden candle holders, especially those fitted with non combustible candle cups, are not likely to have the requisite combustibility, by igniting the material and it staying alight via the candle when it is used in the way it was designed, and thus would be unlikely to be captured by the ban.


Please note that the information provided here is offered by way of general guidance and does not constitute legal advice. The ACCC does not provide legal advice and you are encouraged to seek legal advice if the information provided is insufficient for your purposes.


We can not recommend or refer you to test houses which may undertake testing of compliance to this standards and bans. There are not a lot of known resources in any case which are available for testing against this ban, although I understand that there may be parts of certain bodies like the CSIRO or certain universities (like RMIT) which may be able to conduct the tests required if requested.


Hope this is useful information for you."

[artful bodger]

Seems a bit preposterous that there is in fact a ban on combustible candle holders!
Wonder if there is also a ban on water soluble life boats, or rice paper seat belts etc,etc
Also, why do they draw the line at 5 minutes of burning?
The ones I made and burnt were made from a timber called sugar pine that was at the time used in patternmaking (think its a US imported variety). They were quite big and chunky and I reckon they would have taken a lot longer than 5 minutes to burn completely. I have no way of knowing but I'd imagine half an hour minimum. Just for interests sake they were sitting on a camphor laurel coffer table with a thick top (2 1/2 inch) coated with Wattyl estapol. Guess one could conclude sugar pine and wax is more combustible than Camphor laurel and estapol.
By the way, Nice detective work Moby!

[Mobyturns]

Also, why do they draw the line at 5 minutes of burning?

5 seconds was the test duration. I like how they say "There are not a lot of known resources in any case which are available for testing against this ban."

So how do you comply?

[smiife]

Se candle sticks look good mate, nice turning.

I agree with some of the points raised about fire safety. These days it pays to be prudent and take reasonable steps in the manufacture of items like candlesticks that carry more risk than other items we make. There are Australian standards and also other legislative requirements to be met for such items.

Most of the issues with candlesticks are about the end users placement of the object near other flammable items; the stability of the candle stick and the ease at which it can be knocked or blown over, hence the potential to start a fire.

I contacted our Office of Fair Trading & then Product Safety Australia in Nov 2011 about an Australia wide Product Ban on “combustible candle holders …. if they catch on fire and remain on fire for more than five seconds” and received the following reply (I have highlighted the parts in bold) Link to Product Ban https://www.productsafety.gov.au/con.../itemId/981262

"Geoff
The inquiry you have made through our Product Safety Australia website has been forwarded to me for a response.

The issue you have raised relates to a material (wood) which may well burn over time, however in the context of a candle and a candle holder product, is not likely to be regarded as 'combustible'.

The ban refers to holders that combust, (which ignite or are inflammable) - that is, the candle burns down to such a level in the normal use of the product, that the heat from it is capable of igniting the material and keeping the flame burning continuously for five or more seconds. Wooden candle holders, especially those fitted with non combustible candle cups, are not likely to have the requisite combustibility, by igniting the material and it staying alight via the candle when it is used in the way it was designed, and thus would be unlikely to be captured by the ban.


Please note that the information provided here is offered by way of general guidance and does not constitute legal advice. The ACCC does not provide legal advice and you are encouraged to seek legal advice if the information provided is insufficient for your purposes.


We can not recommend or refer you to test houses which may undertake testing of compliance to this standards and bans. There are not a lot of known resources in any case which are available for testing against this ban, although I understand that there may be parts of certain bodies like the CSIRO or certain universities (like RMIT) which may be able to conduct the tests required if requested.


Hope this is useful information for you."

Hi moby,
WOW!!! thanks for the information and research
I guess I had not thought about consequences
of giving someone a gift ,
I really cannot believe all bull#¥%@ that goes on
these days, I think people should be accountable
for there own actions, take responsibility for there
own actions and not trying to blame other people
for there stupidity ,!
Not having a go at you moby just sometimes
I feel like shouting out .....STOP THE WORLD I WANT TO GET OFF!!!
end of rant!!
Thanks again for your reply

[Mobyturns]

Hi moby,

I feel like shouting out .....STOP THE WORLD I WANT TO GET OFF!!!
end of rant!!

I often feel the same - the world has really changed since the "no win no pay" legal brigade turned up. When I came across the product ban I became curious and found some instances where house fires started from candles so I started to dig around. Best way - go to the people who made the ruling!

My research was for self interest as I like making linear laminated blanks then turning variations of Rude Osolnik candlesticks. I use the standard brass candle cups insert into the top of the piece & have found larger stainless & brass "dishes" (hard to source) for larger candles which are attached by a double pointed screw. From my reading it would appear that I am taking all reasonable & prudent steps to make a "safe" item, but I have decided not to sell them.

[bowl-basher]

I often feel the same - the world has really changed since the "no win no pay" legal brigade turned up. When I came across the product ban I became curious and found some instances where house fires started from candles so I started to dig around. Best way - go to the people who made the ruling!

My research was for self interest as I like making linear laminated blanks then turning variations of Rude Osolnik candlesticks. I use the standard brass candle cups insert into the top of the piece & have found larger stainless & brass "dishes" (hard to source) for larger candles which are attached by a double pointed screw. From my reading it would appear that I am taking all reasonable & prudent steps to make a "safe" item, but I have decided not to sell them.

Had the same problem and I found these guys ..Stiles and Bates in the UK they will post to Australia and are very reasonable also check out their plates and screws for attaching a lamp holder to the turned timber

http://www.stilesandbates.co.uk/brow...n/7158/level/4

no affiliation just good to deal with
regards
Bowl-Basher