Which welder to get ?

[croc]

Any assistance would be appreciated. I have narrowed down that a gas/gasless Mig would be suitable for small all round jobs around the house & a beginner like me, C section, gal steel etc. I'm tossing up whether to get a new SIP 150 Turbo Mig for $600 or a WIA 150 Mig, 9 years old, looks hardly used for about $600 to $700, are the WIA that much better ?

I need to decide quickly, or lose the opportunity to buy. Also, I'm open to suggestions, if I should be looking at an Arc Welder instead ? That's about the maximum dollars I want to spend. Thanks.

[JDarvall]

I'm not a welder by trade or anything......but if its just small jobs around the house ......really just a cheapy arc welders the go I reakon.......I've got a GMC $100 one .....took some practise to use well though.....and you often have to grind away the splatter afterwards.......but if all your interested in is strong welds and appearence is not important I'd just buy a arc welder and save a few hundred dollars.

I find the frustrating thing with welding is just seeing what your doing........if you set up one area in your shed just for welding with a powerful light right in close no probs,,,,and a cheapy fan to blow the fumes away,,,or else you'll feel a little crook,,,and a rip of dark material tucked into your helmet to block out any light that sneaks in through the back and your set......I reakon

[glock40sw]

G'day.
I got a CIG Transmig 165.
It's about 6 months old.
I ran it on gasless for awhile but didn't like the spatter.
I now run it on Liquidaire Migshield gas with 0.6 wire.
Goes like a dog shot up the date.
Bloody great welder.

The only down side is the cost of bottle rental (thieving mongrels).
about $75 to refill and rental of $123 per year.

However, for outdoor use I still use .9 gasless wire.
The 165 has 6 voltage settings and has a 3 metre handpiece lead.

If fact it is going to get a workout today when I finish work. I have to built a splashback for me Metal lathe.

Hope this helps.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

P.S. Blackwood have them on special in their latest catalogue About $850.

[Andy Mac]

I have a WIA 150 MIG welder, bought new a year or so back, and love it. The only thing that needed work was the original plastic wheels, which broke under normal use! Rental on gas bottles is a big issue, especially if you don't make money from it.
If you can afford it buy quality, and in this case buy Australian. I have had very litle success with GMC stuff, in the end I curse it and the day I succumbed to saving dollars. I do know mates in various trades who buy GMC for home, and justify it by saying they can get 3 new items for the price of one good one, and when it stuffs up (not if) they race into the shop and grab another. Do you want to deal with that when you need to finish a job?
Chhers,
Andy

[Grahame Collins]

Croc ,
I have used WIA gear for the best part of thiry five years many of them teaching in Tafe colleges as a metalfab instructor.

I would have WIA over SIP because :

WIA meets all Aus industry standards
Are found in many metal fab shops and Tafes
Spare parts are readily available
Super reliable ie: well made and long lasting
Immune to dunder head apprentices misuse.

SIPS are jumped toys for handymen-while they work ok, they are not well represented in industry. Their spot welder range is OK but their Migs are a different kettle of fish.

no offence meant to current SIP owners

Grahame

[outback]

I'd like to add something constructive, however all the WIA mig blokes have said all I would anyway.

Get it, ya know ya wanna.

[JDarvall]

Croc ,
I have used WIA gear for the best part of thiry five years many of them teaching in Tafe colleges as a metalfab instructor.

I would have WIA over SIP because :

WIA meets all Aus industry standards
Are found in many metal fab shops and Tafes
Spare parts are readily available
Super reliable ie: well made and long lasting
Immune to dunder head apprentices misuse.

SIPS are jumped toys for handymen-while they work ok, they are not well represented in industry. Their spot welder range is OK but their Migs are a different kettle of fish.

no offence meant to current SIP owners

Grahame

Can never argue with an instructor.......but for my own information.....do you really need a WIA for around the house ?........ my GMC has not shat itself yet.....and its repaired gates, bed frames, cast iron applications of all sorts from garden benches to machine castings in my shed......used to make a multitude of homemade jigs for all sorts of woodworking applications.....ie. around the house stuff ? isn't that what the bloke wants ??? maybe I didn't read it right.....

The only real problems I have had were initially when I bought some ultra cheap welding rods......(from crazy clarks....believe it or not.. I was a complete wally for buying them) they worked but everytime I pulled off a weld they would fail to strike again unless I filed them round again.....pain in the ****......but since then I only use better quality blue 2.5mm and 3.2mm rods .....and lollypops for cast.....

I'd imagine if my job demanded results from a welder then definetly I'd buy quality.......but it doesn't.......if it stuffs up on me and I can't fix it, then I'll just put the job off and do something else and buy another welder next time I'm in town..........still this has never happened yet, touch wood, maybe I just got lucky and got a good cheapie amongst the crap ?? don't know.......

[croc]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the tips, appreciate it. Some very good advice from both camps & all making very good sense.

I'll post a reply with what I end up buying.

Just a question for apricotripper - Do you use an auto darkening helmet with your arc, or a manual flip down mask ? reason I ask is, a couple of mates reckon, it can be hard to line up the job & be careful not to flash yourself by getting too close to the job, before being ready with the mask. Can be a pain the butt, mind you it could be just technique & getting good at it, I guess ?

Cheers

[Grahame Collins]

Croc has specifically requested feedback on a choice between MIG,that is wire fedd feed welders OK!
I gave that feed back and Apricottripper is writing about a GMC stick welder.

Cost is more than purchase price .Its about whole of life operating costs and cost of time lost when you really need that consumble part that a vendor can't supply because your cheapy machine is out of production and/or sufficient spares were never provided.
A nine year old WIA will outperform a new Sip $600 model many times over.

My 2cents worth
Grahame

[Grahame Collins]

Woops , i have been a bit sharpish there Apricotripper, Not long out of bed and no cuppa yet! I did not read all the question myself. My apologies ! It depends on what you are goiing to weld and how often.

3 MM Thinner stuff gas shielded mig - (read expense for cylinder hire and refill)

Slighter thicker say up to 6mm ( gasless mig )

3mm and up to 10mm - (stickwelder.0

No fancy helmet needed . Loosen off the pivots clutches until the helmet just sits up on your head and flick your neck. It only takes practice. safe the dollars for a quality welder. Electric helmets tend get left face down and some richard head grinds into them.
cheers
GRUMPY Grahame

[Ashore]

Croc
Like The appricot I have a cheep stick welder that does enough for me
Not much use on thin material but I also have the luxury of an oxy set
If I was going to get a welder today however i'd get a mig with gas
Arc welders are good but you need more skill to use and get a good finish
Having only used arc welders at sea I don't have a problem but still need to practise each time I need to use it

As for the auto darkening helmet check the price against how many times you will use it, being an old dinosaur I use a hand held shield because a lot of the welding I have done has been in awkward places on a rolling ship and a helmet was not practiale.

So as usual it comes down to money , what you spend to what you need to what you get. no good buying something you arn't ever happy with or something with all the bells and whistles that you never use. Which doesn't help at all .



Rgds
Russell


Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.

[Cagey]

Croc, try checking some hire joints out because some upgrade thier machines from time to time, and you can pick up some good quality stuff for a song. The beauty is you know that hire shops only buy reasonable quality in the first place (down time is lost money), so even if they dont have anything to sell you they can steer you in the right direction.

[Greolt]

Coz this is a subject I can comment on. Been a boilermaker for more years than I want to remember.

Out of the two MIGs I would look seriously at the WIA. Well made, brand name torch (hand piece) probably Binzel.
Make sure the wire feed looks in good shape and cable and torch are OK.

Wouldn't bother with gassless. But cylinder rental is a bummer. .6mm wire is fine for light work. That is all I use at home.

Having said that apricot suckers sugestion of a cheap stick welder has some merit for light ocasional use for a hobyist.
100 bucks will get one that will run 12 guage rods and do most small jobs.
However I would always like one that has finely adjustable amps. By that I mean not just a couple of steps by some sort of switch.

Don't know whether the cheap GMC ones have this or not.

I personaly don't like the auto helmets unless you spend about $500 or so for a good one.
But for less experienced welders I guess they are a help.

I would also look for a TAFE hobby course or such like. Welding is one activity that a little instruction will help more than you would expect.

Hope this helps Greolt

[Andy Mac]

Croc,
We've shared advice on the welder, and started on the helmet!
I've used the 3 basic types; hand held, full-face (usually with flip-up shade) and the auto darkening type and drawn the following conclusions:
1/The hand held is cheap, great for quick jobs and easy to cart about, but I usually need that spare hand when actually welding! Steadying something, sometimes the workpiece and sometimes the torch.
2/The flip up shade is almost essential with arc (stick) welding, as you need eye protection when chipping slag...I can say that after having a doctor remove a piece that burned into my eyeball. No chipping of slag with MIG!
3/The self darkening type are great for someone welding all day for a job. As pointed out they aren't cheap, and prone to damage esp. if left on a work bench. I don't own one, as I'm too tight, but have used one in a work place.

My choice is the "wide view" full face helmet for MIG welding. There are a couple on the market (CIG had one called Omniview), and all have a fixed, large shade or visor, allowing for a better view of the work. When I put on my old flip-up one, it feels really blinkered.

As for not being able to strike acurately because you can't see, that's just practice. A couple of tips though, with the shield up, poise right over the target point with the tip, drop the helmet and strike. Even simpler with a MIG, place the extended wire onto the metal, drop the helmet and press the button ASAP. With the full-face helmet adjust the friction on the pivots so it drops when you nod your head.
Hope I haven't bored you!
Regards,
Andy

[JDarvall]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the tips, appreciate it. Some very good advice from both camps & all making very good sense.

I'll post a reply with what I end up buying.

Just a question for apricotripper - Do you use an auto darkening helmet with your arc, or a manual flip down mask ? reason I ask is, a couple of mates reckon, it can be hard to line up the job & be careful not to flash yourself by getting too close to the job, before being ready with the mask. Can be a pain the butt, mind you it could be just technique & getting good at it, I guess ?

Cheers

manual flip down masks what I have ...but its no good unless I drape a big old tear of dark blanket over my head, tucked in at the top to keep light out.....I didn't read the rest of the posts properly....so they no doubt given you all you need......your right about flash.....did it to myself a couple of times when first starting.....not good........but the worst thing was the fumes for me.......I got right into it one day......you know I finally worked out how to use the thing with confidence that I just sucked in too many fumes without knowing it......felt like throwing up all night............I haven't had any training, self taught, so I reakon Grahame knows exactly how green I must have looked.......

What works for me is to ensure that everything is set just before you start......the impression I get is that ideally you need 3 hands so you can have everything properly positioned.......and heaps of light right where you want it.....or maybe I've just got a crap helmet, I haven't the experience to know for certain.........but a lot of the frustration is in say being ready to go, everything set (you think) drop the helmet,,,,,and bugger it ,,,everything suddenly Disappears !!!!....and that frustration, I reakon can build into a comedy of errors....and thats definetly not good with the voltages your dealing with.......so what said before, about doing a course,,,,,probably worth it.

Good luck