Westone Grinder

[Damienol]

Hi WWF,

I am after a wetsone grinder to sharper my turning tools, chisels etc

There dont seem to be a lot of (affordable) options.

From what I can tell the Scheppach Tigers are about the only ones within my budget (<$400). My question is is the 2500 worth all the extra $$$ over the 2000?

[derekcohen]

For turning tools, you are better off with a CBN wheel on a dry grinder.

These do not wear, maintain settings as a result, grind fast, and are relatively cool (that should not be an issue with HSS). The Tormek tool rest is available for dry grinders as well, so you get the best of both worlds. Consider 2 wheels: 80 (even 180) grit for grinding and 240 (possibly 350) grit for sharpening.

Google for the information.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[rtyuiop]

I have a scheppach 2500 - it's not terrible, but if I had my time over I would spend the extra for a dry grinder setup with one or two CBN wheels - I might still replace it with the vicmarc setup one of these days.

My biggest complaint is that I don't want to deal with water in the shop every time I want to sharpen (admittedly I'm lazy), but the other issue with it is that the scheppach jigs aren't necessarily all that great... You can buy the tormek ones for the complicated jigs instead (I resorted to the Tormek gouge sharpening jig after I couldn't get the scheppach one to work), but that gets expensive fast! It also needs frequent dressing of the stone to keep it anything remotely resembling flat.

This does lead me to a question... Anyone have a guess as to why vicmarc still make you buy their grinder with (I guess) AlOx wheels and then buy their CBN wheels separately? If they just sold them with CBN straight up for a modest discount I might have bought on impulse by now!

[Damienol]

For turning tools, you are better off with a CBN wheel on a dry grinder.

These do not wear, maintain settings as a result, grind fast, and are relatively cool (that should not be an issue with HSS). The Tormek tool rest is available for dry grinders as well, so you get the best of both worlds. Consider 2 wheels: 80 (even 180) grit for grinding and 240 (possibly 350) grit for sharpening.

Google for the information.

Regards from Perth

Derek

any recomendations?

[Damienol]

For turning tools, you are better off with a CBN wheel on a dry grinder.

These do not wear, maintain settings as a result, grind fast, and are relatively cool (that should not be an issue with HSS). The Tormek tool rest is available for dry grinders as well, so you get the best of both worlds. Consider 2 wheels: 80 (even 180) grit for grinding and 240 (possibly 350) grit for sharpening.

Google for the information.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Do you suggest any brands?

[RoyG]

I've owned a Scheppach 2500 wet stone grinder for about three years now. It works OK. The Scheppach branded jigs for the grinder are fairly expensive (although not as expensive as the Tormek jigs). Quality wise - the Scheppach jigs are "loose fitting" pressed steel, and as a result are not able to produce as accurate a grind as a Tormek Jig. I have modified a couple of my commonly used Scheppach jigs to reduce the slop in them; so they can be made to work more accurately with some persistence.

Some of the Scheppach Jigs, such as the the swept back bowl gouge jig, are a challenge to set-up and use, as the instructions provided with the jig are written in good quality Chinglish. I have bought a number of Record Power branded jigs (jigs designed to fit the Record Power WG250 Wet Stone Grinder), and these Record Power jigs work OK on the Scheppach, and are cheaper to buy.

I have used the Scheppach to sharpen Chisels, Plane Irons, Woodturning Tools, kitchen knives, and scissors. When you get the sharpening procedure right (watch lots of Scheppach, Record Power, and Tormek videos), you will be able to get very sharp cutting edges using the Scheppach. The downsides of using the Scheppach (and I suspect that this applies to other brands of wet stone grinders as well), include; fiddly adjustment on the jigs, and a very slow grinding action. On the plus side, because of the water, and because of the slow grinding action, you will find it very very hard to overheat a cutting tool using a wet stone grinder.

Do I still use the Scheppach Wet Stone Grinder. No !

The only time it's been off it's storage shelf in the last six months, was to sharpen my neighbour's sewing scissors, and I realised afterwards that I probably could have free-handed the job on the dry grinder easily enough, and done the job much faster.

If I had my time around again, would I buy the Sheppach 2500 next time? With the benefit of hind sight .... No.

I now sharpen chisels and plan blades by hand on diamond stones and water stones. And, I sharpen most wood-turning tools on the dry grinder, using home made jigs. (Skew chisels get honed on the diamond plates.) That's a lot of wood-turning tools that I could have bought with the money that I spent buying the wet grinder.

I picked up an 8 inch Abbott & Ashby (Australian made I believe) dry stone grinder for around $75.00 at a hardware store sale about a year ago. Normal price was, I believe, about $125.00. It is a normal (high) speed dry grinder, not one of these slow speed dry grinders. I tossed out the two course grinding wheels that were on it, and installed two Norton brand Aluminium Oxide wheels - an 80 grit and a 120 (or it might be a 180 grit - can't remember for sure). The manufacturer's tool rests were useless, so they've been replaced with home made sharpening jigs. Because it is fast to use, it encourages you to sharpen a wood-turning tool as soon as it starts to get blunt, rather than putting the job off and persisting with a blunt wood-turning tool, as I had been doing with the wet stone grinder. Because the home made jigs are cheap and easy to make (Google sharpening jigs for wood lathe tools), you can have lots of jigs for different types of wood turning tools.

Some people recommend using the low speed dry stone grinders, because it is supposedly harder to overheat the tool's steel, and as a result ruin the temper of the tool. In the USA and Canada, you can often buy normal speed and low speed dry grinders at very similar prices, and that I think is where the recommendation for preferring low speed dry grinders comes from. Because the two types of dry grinder are often similarly priced in the USA and Canada, people over there can justify buying the slow speed dry grinder because there isn't much cost difference. I owned a Harbour Freight slow speed dry grinder when I lived in Canada, and when I bought it, it was the same price as the high speed dry grinders. But the slow speed dry grinder was slower to use, and a friend still managed to overheat a bowl gouge that he was sharpening, probably because he'd left his brain in neutral.

However, in Australia, slow speed dry grinders are much less common, and seem to always be priced at two or three times the price of a similar high speed dry grinder. Personally, I don't believe that the extra cost of a low speed dry grinder is justified. Keep the tool you're sharpening cool by frequent dipping in water, and by being careful and mindful when grinding, and you'll get sharp tools, and you won't damage the temper of your tools.

Hope that info helps.

Regards,

RoyG

[derekcohen]

any recomendations?

Try Jim Carroll (in Oz): CWS Store - Woodcut CBN Grinding Wheels | Carroll's Woodcraft Supplies

or Ken Rizza at Woodturners Wonders (in the USA), who should have finer grits.

I really struggle to understand the rationale behind a watercooled grinder for a HSS lathe chisel. It is really the Tormek (and clones) tool rests that are the reason for their use, not the grinder, which is too slow ... and wears too fast. The tool rest may be used on the dry grinder with a CBN wheel, which will not wear.

Incidentally, the dry grinder speed is not a significant factor. Use a lighter touch with carbon steels. The extra heat from a faster speed is not a fator for HSS.

This is the system I have: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ningSetUp.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Damienol]

Thanks Derek, after reading your comprehensive blog I now know my .22 Kw grinder will need a friend with a couple of CBN wheels

[Damienol]

In looking for a grinder and a pair of CBN wheels the price has easily surpassed the Tormek T4.

Am i better off just getting a Tormek?

[derekcohen]

You can purcjase a new 8" grinder for under $150. You could get a used one for a lot less. You only need one x 180 grit CBN wheel.

The up front cost is still way below the Tormek. For this you must also factor in the benefits of the CBN wheel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Damienol]

You can purcjase a new 8" grinder for under $150. You could get a used one for a lot less. You only need one x 180 grit CBN wheel.

The up front cost is still way below the Tormek. For this you must also factor in the benefits of the CBN wheel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek, I thought I needed 2 CBN wheels which put the price up near the Tomrek

[Paul39]

Damienol,

Some years ago in a weak moment I bought a used big Tormek with many accessories and jigs. I sharpened plane irons, scissors, a skew, and a bowl gouge and sliced myself with it.

It was winter and my shop gets below freezing so it was in the house. It is still in the house and sharpens knives occasionally.

I have a 1725 RPM grinder at the end of my lathe with an 8 inch 100 grit white wheel on the platform side and an 8 inch 200 grit white wheel on the bowl gouge jig side. I turn 15 - 25 hours a week and in 7 years have barely worn the grinding wheels.

I sharpen my scrapers frequently, taking about 15 seconds, and my "rough" skew taking 30 seconds on the 100 grit. The bowl gouges on the 200 grit take a minute or two because of using the jig. I have a Wolverine system which came with the used lathe and grinder.

I sharpen my "finish" skew by stroking it on a piece of 220 or 320 sandpaper on the bed of the lathe.
If you have a dry grinder, start with a good set of jigs. Before buying anything have a try with your own tools on plain aluminum oxide, and a cbn wheel on a decent grinder and good jigs.

Norton ands others make good grinding wheels, but we need some guidance about hardness and other propertied from experienced turners or sellers of turning stuff.

Some folks get caught up in sharpening rituals trying to get the absolute sharpest tool. That wonderful keen edge is gone in 15 seconds or less cutting a piece of rock hard Aussie timber turning at 1000 RPM.

If one is turning soft, spalted, or burl timber, or finials, the fine finish from a Tormek or equivalent is needed for the finishing cuts. That can also be done by hand with 320 or 400 grit sandpaper. Most of the time a swipe on a dry grinder will suffice.

There have been some long threads about sharpening systems here, do a search.