Lathe tool questions.

[JDarvall]

I've made do with regular chisels. Thinking of improving things somewhat by buying some nicer tools.. Did a lot of copy work this afternoon, and it became apparent just how much re-sharpening I needed to do.

So what brands etc do you recommend. Still pretty new to lathe work.

At the moment I'm using ......

- a carving gouge for a roughing in gouge. Lot of re-sharpening on that one. Gets a lot of work that one.

- a small marples dovetail chisel for a parting tool......which parting tools are better do you thing, the ones with beveled or parallel sides. I did notice that when I parted or pushed a chisel straight that didn't have beveled sides it would tempt burning and jaming at the sides. So, that makes me think the beveled sides are the best.....but then I've heard of some who prefer parallel sides.

- spindle gouge.......I've got a really old one, that seems good enough, but its just normal carbon steel. Is HSS much of an improvement you think ?

A good roughing in gouge and thin parting tool I want mostly.

Thanks.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

So what brands etc do you recommend. Still pretty new to lathe work.

Oooer! Who's opening a can of worms then? I reckon P&N are about the best Oz tools you'll come across, esp. their bowl gouges. Who else? Hmmm... Hamlet are nice, as are Crown and Henry Taylors. I wouldn't really like to have to try and put them in any order of preference, but my fave brand is Ashley Iles ...pity I can't find an importer at the mo, I want a couple more!

I'm sorry to say I think Robert Sorby tools are going downhill, but if you can find any old Sorbys they're definitely worth the money. Sorby seems to have caught Microsoftillitus; I think they're trying for the "gadget" market instead of going for quality. (Just my opinion, but junk is junk... )

- a carving gouge for a roughing in gouge. Lot of re-sharpening on that one. Gets a lot of work that one.

Depending on the sizes of the pieces you're turning, I'd say a large spindle gouge would make a good replacement for that. Any tool can be used for roughing, but the spindle gouge is closest to a dedicated roughing gouge while also good for spindle work. Funny that!

- a small marples dovetail chisel for a parting tool......which parting tools are better do you thing, the ones with beveled or parallel sides. I did notice that when I parted or pushed a chisel straight that didn't have beveled sides it would tempt burning and jaming at the sides. So, that makes me think the beveled sides are the best.....but then I've heard of some who prefer parallel sides.

This is one of those personal preference things. I prefer a diamond-shaped tool, but unless you take a bit of care when sharpening it's all too easy to have the cutting edge move off the widest part... which leads to jamming. I also sharpen mine quite differently to most people. Concave on one bevel and convex on t'other.

A word of advice: always make a double-cut when parting off, no matter what type of tool you use. Don't just plunge the tools straight in... always cut in a few mm, then move the tool over at least half it's width and cut a further few mm, then alternate between the two. This avoids the burning and jamming problem... all too many otherwise finished pieces have been ruined by a jam when parting.

- spindle gouge.......I've got a really old one, that seems good enough, but its just normal carbon steel. Is HSS much of an improvement you think ?

Generally speaking, assuming good quality CS and good quality HSS the difference is basically that CS will take a sharper edge but HSS will hold it for longer. I like HSS for our hardwoods, CS for imports and softwoods.

[Cliff Rogers]

Do a search, it has been covered before.

Nah, I like my Henry Taylor stuff, mainly my superflute, but I also have some of their big mother scrapers.

The older Sorby stuff was good as was the older Crown stuff.
I haven't bought any Sorby stuff for a few years now.
Crown are now main by somebody else (so the rumour goes)

I like the look of Hamlet but I haven't got any or tried it to comment

I also have some MaJing HSS blanks that I have made into various things & it is a bit hit & miss. I have 2 pieces that are almost the same in section that were bought at different times to make little 'dovetail' scrapers for cutting a foot on a blank at the right angle & one is always sharp & the other barely cuts straight off the grinder.... weird.

PS. I forgot to mention P&N, I had 2 smaller bowl gouges & I didn't like them as much as I liked my HT. I gave one of them away to a beginner & kept the smallest one.

And one more thing.... I'm with Skew on the parting tool, I do the same thing.

[Cliff Rogers]

Here is a thread with some stuff about turning tools.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/gouges-57-varieties-34668

More here....
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/review-ellsworth-bowl-gouge-45080

& here (ignore the nonsense )
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/aussie-chisels-43937

& here
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/chisels-43992
& put a link in it to an even older one.

[JDarvall]

Thanks for the ideas.

Depending on the sizes of the pieces you're turning, I'd say a large spindle gouge would make a good replacement for that. Any tool can be used for roughing, but the spindle gouge is closest to a dedicated roughing gouge while also good for spindle work. Funny that!
.

so give Sorby the flick. Hamlet looks affordable enough. Got the catalog out. Looking at roughing in gouges.....1/2", or 3/4" you reakon ?

This is one of those personal preference things. I prefer a diamond-shaped tool, but unless you take a bit of care when sharpening it's all too easy to have the cutting edge move off the widest part... which leads to jamming. I also sharpen mine quite differently to most people. Concave on one bevel and convex on t'other.

A word of advice: always make a double-cut when parting off, no matter what type of tool you use. Don't just plunge the tools straight in... always cut in a few mm, then move the tool over at least half it's width and cut a further few mm, then alternate between the two. This avoids the burning and jamming problem... all too many otherwise finished pieces have been ruined by a jam when parting.
.

ta. I'll remember that. I still haven't got a woodscrew chuck for my shopsmith. So, I do all my knobs between centres still.....cut off with a saw latter and clean up a bit. So I've never parted anything off....yet.

Just use it for sizing in, uno. ....... So if I was to buy a parting tool , for small work (small knobs etc) which sized one should I get. What I'm fearing is that if the parting tools too thin then I won't be able to get the calipers in there. ..... there's parting tools in the catalog here as thin as 1/16" . Thats the sort of detail I may want you see in these small knobs. Just how to size is the question. I have been using cheapo wrenches from supercheap for sizing......maybe I slice them thinner to under 1/16" as well .....the wrench may end up being a bit fragile though

Generally speaking, assuming good quality CS and good quality HSS the difference is basically that CS will take a sharper edge but HSS will hold it for longer. I like HSS for our hardwoods, CS for imports and softwoods.

I'll remember that. I'll go get a picture of what I did after work. Get your thoughts....back in a bit.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I'll remember that. I'll go get a picture of what I did after work. Get your thoughts....back in a bit.

Waiting... waiting...

Looking at roughing in gouges.....1/2", or 3/4" you reakon ?

I'd say 3/4" for the average turner, 1/2" if you plan on specialising in small items.

I still haven't got a woodscrew chuck for my shopsmith. So, I do all my knobs between centres still.....cut off with a saw latter and clean up a bit. So I've never parted anything off....yet.

That's all I do, too. I make a "string" of knobs in my blank and seperate 'em later. I do mount 'em individually in pin-jaws on the lathe to clean up the end, but that's just 'cos I can. A linisher does the job just as well, as does a hand-sanding block.

Just use it for sizing in, uno. ....... So if I was to buy a parting tool , for small work (small knobs etc) which sized one should I get. What I'm fearing is that if the parting tools too thin then I won't be able to get the calipers in there. ..... there's parting tools in the catalog here as thin as 1/16" . Thats the sort of detail I may want you see in these small knobs. Just how to size is the question. I have been using cheapo wrenches from supercheap for sizing......maybe I slice them thinner to under 1/16" as well .....the wrench may end up being a bit fragile though

Personally I wouldn't buy a parting tool any narrower than 5mm. What's that... 3/16"? IMHO, anyone who regularly parts off narrower than that really deserves a clip around the ear. They're a disaster waiting to happen.

For what you're doing, I'm more inclined to recycle old steel lying around the shed. The prices I've seen for some parting tools are just criminal!

Old useless screwdrivers and concrete nails are items that see a lot of recycling in my shed. Sure, they don't hold an edge for long, but it's not like you're cutting away a lot of material. They can be resized/reshaped at need and are easily replaced without costing an arm and a leg. Don't expect a "finished surface" from 'em, but they're good enough for sizing to the mark.



BTW, if using a screwdriver, use it as a scraper with the cutting edge below the toolrest with handle in the air. You really, really don't want to find out what happens if you use it handle down like a gouge and it digs in...

[JDarvall]

Thanks for the links Cliff. I'm so glad its been covered before.

I wanted to show this.....just this bloody cot stand still. I got a couple of hours after work this arvo. There's a little rail , that acts as a fence that runs around the top to stop that basket from falling off.

Well, I wanted to put little curved balusters (?) along there. Nothing too clever cause I had to make 16 of them. They ended up looking like snakes with a full belly. But that'll do.
Attachment 41691

What I wanted to show you is this little jig I came up with. It sped things up heaps. Its just mdf nailed to a bit of wood with two chisel clamped tight to the sides.
Attachment 41692
Attachment 41693
(when I said size it normally after.....I mean't put the jig down and just size with a single chisel and calipers/spanner or whatever)

Before I nailed it to the timber I just ripped a bit of the mdf off to transfer uno.....with little notches on it and the diameters for sizing.....pinched that idea of the net.
Attachment 41694

Then just sized with a 8, 10 and 14 spanners then used the gouge to curve it....sand ...

First time I've really copied so many at once. Wanted to show off. Can you buy jigs like that.....like something that may adjust the distance between the two chisels ?

[JDarvall]

spose your going to post while I'm writing mine....and the conversations gonna look all weird.

Waiting... waiting...

Come on I wastn' that long. Now I'm waiting on you..... come on, hurry up, I want to go to bed. Gota be up at 6 tomorrow.

Personally I wouldn't buy a parting tool any narrower than 5mm. What's that... 3/16"? IMHO, anyone who regularly parts off narrower than that really deserves a clip around the ear. They're a disaster waiting to happen.

So why they sell em. Hamlets got a 1/16" and a 1/8" and a 3/16". If you don't use them for parting off, that would just leave sizing in wouldn't it. But what I don't get is , how do you size in if the calipers are wider than that.

For what you're doing, I'm more inclined to recycle old steel lying around the shed. The prices I've seen for some parting tools are just criminal!

Old useless screwdrivers and concrete nails are items that see a lot of recycling in my shed. Sure, they don't hold an edge for long, but it's not like you're cutting away a lot of material. They can be resized/reshaped at need and are easily replaced without costing an arm and a leg. Don't expect a "finished surface" from 'em, but they're good enough for sizing to the mark.

BTW, if using a screwdriver, use it as a scraper with the cutting edge below the toolrest with handle in the air. You really, really don't want to find out what happens if you use it handle down like a gouge and it digs in...

yeh, thats happen a bit with me already .. worst thing, is when you do it once, and then 10 minutes latter do it again....like that homer simpson fella.

Old files no good on the lathe ? ..... they'll shatter right ? Or is that one of those over-cautious things .....

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

What I wanted to show you is this little jig I came up with. It sped things up heaps. Its just mdf nailed to a bit of wood with two chisel clamped tight to the sides.

The purists will cringe, but... welcome to the world of production turning!

Before I nailed it to the timber I just ripped a bit of the mdf off to transfer uno.....with little notches on it and the diameters for sizing.....pinched that idea of the net.

That's basically the turner's equivalent to a story stick. I've made a few similar sticks that have hardened steel pins at appropriate positions, so that after roughing a piece round I just press the pins into the wood while she spins and it marks all the appropriate positions. I use 'em for things like pepper-mills, etc that tend to be done in batches and may need repeating in future.

At the gathering, showed us his version... just drive some small clouts into the edge of the wood and trim the heads off with pliers. Much easier than effing around drilling and gluing in pins. Another option he mentioned was just using a triangular file to nick the corners at each mark, so you could hold it to the work and use a pencil in each nick.

First time I've really copied so many at once. Wanted to show off. Can you buy jigs like that.....like something that may adjust the distance between the two chisels ?

Not that I know of... but I've heard of production turners cutting profiles into steel plates (much like a profile plane blade) and using that to cut/shape the whole thing in one pass. Not my cup of tea though, it'd take too much cleaning up afterwards and I like to feel as though I'm contributing a bit more than just imitating a tool clamp.

From what I can see in the pix, you've done a good job on the cot stand so far. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

spose your going to post while I'm writing mine....and the conversations gonna look all weird.

So?

So why they sell em. Hamlets got a 1/16" and a 1/8" and a 3/16". If you don't use them for parting off, that would just leave sizing in wouldn't it. But what I don't get is , how do you size in if the calipers are wider than that.

Why do they sell DIY 240VAC electrical kits? Because people buy 'em.

Most tools can be used in a variety of ways and I'm sure there's bound to be a use for 'em besides parting or nipping down. Fine detail work, perhaps? But so far I've found the tools I already have do everything I want: I don't like buying a tool that has "one and only one application." Maybe with the exception of a bowl-saver... but I haven't bought one of them, either.

Old files no good on the lathe ? ..... they'll shatter right ? Or is that one of those over-cautious things .....

If you use them for only very light work, taking off finishing cuts, etc. I can't see any problem. But if you use one for hollowing or roughing or anywhere the tool's under a lot of stress, well...

I've been meaning to try retempering 'em (somewhere on these forums there's a thread on just that) but I haven't gotten around to it. One day, maybe. In the meantime, I make like a lawyer and play it safe, saying "don't." (Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah... sure... )

[JDarvall]

Night mate. I can't hold out any longer. I'll get back on line tomorrow afternoon.

[Rookie]

Buy a set such as the Carbatec HSS set that you don't mind wasting a bit of while you learn to sharpen. Then go up the range through Hamlets and Sorbys etc, as you build your variety of different tools.

That's what I decided after researching the same question a while ago. I pretty new at this as well.

[JDarvall]

Thanks John. I saw that set in the catalog too. Thinking about it too. Honestly, did you notice a big improvement when you started buying the expensive stuff after the carpatec stuff ? .....Cause the only reason for buying the expensive stuff, as far as I can see now, is for the resistance to wear I'm guessing you'd find in those expensive ones. I want a noticeable , real time-saving improvement. Else, I'll just stick with what I've got. and make them from old tools.

Thanks Skew by the way, for letting me pick your brain. Got a lot out of our talk.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Thanks Skew by the way, for letting me pick your brain. Got a lot out of our talk.

You're quite welcome.

In all honesty, I see a lot of similarities between turning tools and hand-planes. eg. Both have specialist tools, designed to do a job well... and that one job only. And in both fields a real expert doesn't need such tools, they can manage just as well with any suitably sharpened lump of metal stuck in a bit of wood.

[Barry_White]

So?
If you use them for only very light work, taking off finishing cuts, etc. I can't see any problem. But if you use one for hollowing or roughing or anywhere the tool's under a lot of stress, well...

I've been meaning to try retempering 'em (somewhere on these forums there's a thread on just that) but I haven't gotten around to it. One day, maybe. In the meantime, I make like a lawyer and play it safe, saying "don't." (Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah... sure... )

Hi Skew

There has been a bit of discussion on the forum about using old files as turning tools and many have said they should be re-tempered.

As I have mentioned before on the forum that all my turning tools are made from old files apart from a gouge I have which is a Marples Bros. which is over 50 years old.

Now mine have never been re-tempered and all the pattermakers used them in the pattern shop where I served my apprenticeship and we never had one shatter.

You mention they should only be used for light work but we used to turn patterns rings up to 2400mm dia up to 200 to 250mm thick both in depth and width built up in segments. These were fixed to cross arms which where attached to a steel face plate that was up to 900mm dia fixed to the stand alone lathe head.

Now this is not what would be called light work.

There was also a pit in the floor for the pattern to spin in so as to get the tool rest at a workable height.

I suppose today with OHS you wouldn't be allowed to do it. This was over 50 years ago.

The best part about old files as turning tools is they hold their edge a lot longer