black wattle question

[coffenup]

Has any one turned black wattle. I was making a 1/2 log round into a turning blank. Noticed it blunted my tools quickly. I also noticed where I put the screws in to mount onto the face plate it cracked. has any one else had this prob
Regards Michael

[TTIT]

Depends on which of the 101 black wattles you're referring to . Gotta be the most over-used name for a tree there is. I just finished a closed bowl in one of the 4 or 5 types from around here (acacia leiocalyx AKA Early-flowering wattle) that I really cocked up! Edge of a pipe and a bit of rot in it so I loaded her up with CA before I started. Top turned fine - hard but workable but the bottom was killing me - literally spending more time at the grinder than the lathe. Discovered I had glued a heap of sand in amongst the rot which basically turned it into a grinder Chisels are a bit shorter but I didn't let it beat me

[artme]

Our Accacias are full of silicone, The main ingredient of sand. no wonder the tools get blunt!!!

[Harry72]

Would that be the stuff from me or Robutacion?

If its from me it'll be acacia salicina (broughton willow aka sally wattle). Yes it will blunt your tools quickly you need good steel, my northwood tools dont last very long but my woodcut gouges last ok.
You will also find it takes a fine finish... 2000g+

[robutacion]

Hi coffenup,
I believe I can help you, not only because I was the one to supply the timber to you, but also they are all part of the same trees (3) I cut nearly 2 years ago. Those 3 trees did grow together and were very similar in size (age) and condition. I have turned many pieces out of them (including yourself - first lot), and some of the smaller branches were used on the very first Timber Challenge. With this said, I should also say that there has been an enormous difference in the results obtained, depending on each individual piece of wood, even tough they all come from the same place (tree[s]).

Now, I believe, the piece you are referring to, is one of the pieces you got from Franks shed meeting, and there were 2 different shapes on them. 1 - the small half logs with the ends painted, and 2 - the round blanks I've offered to everyone.
The first ones were cut from the larger logs (storage size of about 3' long), slip manually and end-grain painted, only a week before the meeting. This half logs would have a sightly higher moisture readings but dry enough to turn. The second lot, (the round blanks), were cut semi-green from the larger logs last summer and submerse in soaping solution for 72 hours before they were stored to dry. I actually did mention this on the gift presentation on the day, easy to forget, I understand...!
Anyway, what this means is, the first lot is very much in a natural stage, and a lot softer by being cut (length/split) recently, the other lot, the round blanks did dry a lot harder, as they had no other sealing (end-grain) but only the soaping solution. I have notice that most of the timbers that I put trough this treatment, did show extra hardness on the blanks timber surface, some times as deep as half an inch, this is less of a problem when you are aware of it and also when the blanks are at least 3" to 4" thick, which is not the case with 99% of the round blanks I took that day. (Harry got the thickness one), the rest were about 1"1/2 to 2"1/2 thick!

My suggestion to you is, for the half natural logs, pre-drill the holes first and try to keep the rpm's under 1.000. Use very sharp gouges and be gentle with it, small/light cuts get better results as those blanks are small, therefore fragile (bridle). This does apply also for the already round/soaped blanks but, before you start turning them, leave them (submersed) in clean water overnight. This will soften the wood making easy cutting but I will recommend to make all the final sanding, the next day, after all excess moisture has disappear. (the rotation of the blank on the lathe will dry it quickly as you go.

If any of this doesn't work, you have some very "fancy" firewood to burn and forget...!
Don't worry, I'm here...!

PS: I've only just realise of Harry72 reply, and yeah, off course, whas that yours or mine Black Wattle specimen...???

Hope this helps
Cheers
RBTCO

[coffenup]

RBTCO & Harry72
the piece I am turn is a half log no painted ends with a moisture content of 12% as I checked this before mounting it. I also noticed that the tools only needed a quick runover on the grinder. I love the look of the timber and can't wait to see the end product
regards Michael
Will put photos of end product

[NeilS]

If it's the same wood that Robutacion has posted the photos of, it looks like what is locally called Blackwood, scientific name Acacia melanoxylon.

My experience is that melanoxylon is relatively easy to turn (green or seasoned) compared to the desert acacias from up north or west of here. Some of those, like Western Myall (Acacia papyrocarpa), are seriously hard stuff and quickly kill the cutting edge on the toughest tool steels. They grow in sandy country and seem to incorporate a lot of it into their cellular structure.

Neil

[Rattrap]

submerse in soaping solution for 72 hours before they were stored to dry.

Sorry to go off topic but this soaping solution sounds very interesting.
What is it & what does it do?

[rowie]

Has any one turned black wattle. I was making a 1/2 log round into a turning blank. Noticed it blunted my tools quickly. I also noticed where I put the screws in to mount onto the face plate it cracked. has any one else had this prob
Regards Michael

As Artme said, some have varying amounts of silica depending on where it has grown. As far as splitting when screwing faceplate on, make sure you ofset the placement of the screws so they aren't in line/parrallel with the way the grain runs. Same as you would when nailing a board. Otherwise your pilot holes or lack of would be the problem.

[robutacion]

RBTCO & Harry72
the piece I am turn is a half log no painted ends with a moisture content of 12% as I checked this before mounting it. I also noticed that the tools only needed a quick runover on the grinder. I love the look of the timber and can't wait to see the end product
regards Michael
Will put photos of end product

Hi coffenup,
Well, is most certainly Harry72 Quote; "If its from me it'll be acacia salicina (broughton willow aka sally wattle)." My half logs were painted both ends, with "Black Wattle" written on one end, from a black marker pen.
I've got myself one of Harry72 half logs, probably the other half of yours so, we will see what happens to mine! will be alright...!

NeilS, yes, you are right about the Acacia specie in my pics, even tough most of the Australian Blackwood I have seen from other areas, are a bit different. As a matter of preference, I prefer to call it local Black Wattle, as I do with local Silver Wattle & Golden Wattle.

Rattrap, the issue of submerging timbers in soaping solutions has been well covered by many forumates in previous threads. If you search under "timber soaping" or similar wording, you will find a variety of suggestions and ideas all related to this issue. My process is not that much different than many others, the following, are the biggest advantages I find with this procedure. 1- allow green timbers to dry quicker and more stable (less cracking/warping). 2 - efficient "drying retardant", in hot summer months, when timber start to develop cracks. 3 - most timbers after soaked and dry will turn easier, due to the "lubricant" effect from some concentrated detergents. 4 - they smell good while turning. 5 - effective way to make very warped/out of shape pieces, return to their original shape (generically speaking!)

Cheers
RBTCO

[Frank&Earnest]

Hi guys, back at the keyboard after 2 days horizontal with a @#$%^ cold. Still not completely vertical, but at least I can see the screen for a couple of minutes between sneezes.

My experience with the two acacias: both blunt tools quickly and need light cuts, as RBTCO said. I was able to finish a bowl with a blank from Harry but gift disk no.4 from RBTCO, alas, is no more: it shattered when I got down to around 4 mm. It was very brittle and I was not light enough. Now that RBTCO has explained that the brittleness is caused by the treatment on the thin round, I know what to expect from the other similar ones. I will redeem myself with the next one.

It was certainly much easier to turn untreated, as the challenge pieces proved.

Thanks NeilS for your identification, now I know what to write on the bottom.

Harry, I forgot (did you say?) the name of the other white 80 year dry gum that you also donated. Would you remember? Thanks.

[Sprog]

Sorry to go off topic but this soaping solution sounds very interesting.
What is it & what does it do?

Have a look here

http://www.ronkent.com/techniques.php

Scroll down to "Experimental New Treatment for Wood"

[Rattrap]

thanks for that, very interesting read.

[robutacion]

Hi guys, back at the keyboard after 2 days horizontal with a @#$%^ cold. Still not completely vertical, but at least I can see the screen for a couple of minutes between sneezes.

My experience with the two acacias: both blunt tools quickly and need light cuts, as RBTCO said. I was able to finish a bowl with a blank from Harry but gift disk no.4 from RBTCO, alas, is no more: it shattered when I got down to around 4 mm. It was very brittle and I was not light enough. Now that RBTCO has explained that the brittleness is caused by the treatment on the thin round, I know what to expect from the other similar ones. I will redeem myself with the next one.

It was certainly much easier to turn untreated, as the challenge pieces proved.

Thanks NeilS for your identification, now I know what to write on the bottom.

Harry, I forgot (did you say?) the name of the other white 80 year dry gum that you also donated. Would you remember? Thanks.

Welcome back Frank,
Hope that cold/flue leaves you soon, they're bugger of things...!
I'm sorry that you had problems with one of my B.W. round blanks, as I didn't know that you weren't aware of the extra hardness resulted from the soaping procedure, I'm certain this issue has been discussed in one of my old threads, I don't remember which one, nor is too important, now that I've just refreshed the issue. Better luck next time, huh?

Cheers
RBTCO

[Harry72]

Sorry Frank I dont know the name of that white coloured gum, this is what it looks like