what do we know about these tools

[hughie]

Found this on my wanderings, anybody use or know about these tools

http://www.hannestool.com/

[Gil Jones]

Have never used the advertised turning tools or handles, but JoHannes Michelsen turns some very nice wooden hats.
http://carverscompanion.com/Ezine/Vo...KMenendez.html

[rsser]

Nope.

You'd know this better than me Hughie - high Vanadium content is sposed to both give you a good edge (like high carbon steel) as well as durability.

[hughie]

Ern,

I was curious as to how good they might be. Vanadium along with some sort of Cryo treatment. If you look around on the net there comments for an against the Cryo treatment of steel.

What most toolmakers dont say is what grade of steel there using, fear of copying I guess. But then the average Turner would not be up on the various types etc.

For instance with Vanadium, we have three basic grades to choose from in Oz

Vanadis 23,30 and 60 with 60 being the premium with 6.5% vanadium and 10.5 cobolt.


The art of the tool maker is in the heatreatment to a large extent as well as careful selection of the grade etc.

[rsser]

Ern,

If you look around on the net there comments for an against the Cryo treatment of steel.

What most toolmakers dont say is what grade of steel there using, fear of copying I guess. But then the average Turner would not be up on the various types etc.

.

Yes, the only proper comparo I've seen of turning with cryo vs plain HSS the cryo showed no wear advantage. - and I take your point about us not knowing what the steel composition is. Not even the tester could get the supplier to tell him.

[OGYT]

I've never use the Hannes tools, or seen one that I know of. But I sure do like my Thompson Bowl Gouges that are Cryogenically treated. They will hold an edge longer than my pinnacle gouge or my Crown Pro PM, especially if you hone the edge beforehand.
To give you a little insight as to how good they are... I have nicked my chuck jaws three times with a bowl gouge. (I know you ain't supposed to do that, but I love using that little short toolrest, and a few times I've run off the end of it.)
I nicked it twice with my 5/8 Crown Pro PM, and once with the Thompson 5/8". All three nicks had to be filed down, because there were pretty good burrs left by the cutting edge of the tools. Both times with the Crown, I had to grind out a chip in the cutting edge. With the Thompson, I just went back to turning... cause it didn't even chip the edge.
I couldn't even see where the edge caught the chuck.
If you get a chance, try one sometime.

[rsser]

That's a helluva test routine Al!

Yeah, good reports about the Thompson tools.

FWIW I took slices off all four outside high points of a set of VM shark jaws with a plain HSS tool. Can't remember which one unfortunately.

And in the case of cryo, dunno if you saw this and apologies for duplicate posting:
I think there was a short version in More Woodturning a few months back.
http://www.morewoodturning.net/Tool%...m%20Staley.pdf

[OGYT]

Ern, Whew! I read all of that, ogled the graphs, and am in awe of the way they decided to test the cutters. I know they're scientists or at least scientifically minded, but. I think it's sort of like this global warming phenomena. All hyped up, but doesn't make much sense to the common man.
All in all. I know they know what they're talking about. But I trust my tests more than theirs. I tested my tools on Chuck jaws and Bowls.
Thanks for the link. I do now understand the difference between Austenite and Martensite.

[rsser]

Yeah, it is thorough in the best scientific sense and so a bit of a gobful for amateurs like me. And questions about controlling the variables can still be asked: how do sharpening methods affect partic. tool steel compositions? and the methods of tempering and cryo treating?

Another take-out, if I read the graphs correctly, is that the most exotic tool steels reduce the wear rate by half. Whether that makes them worth the $$ for hobby turners is moot.

I'd certainly like to halve the frequency of the sharpening eg on my Ellsworth Sig gouge cos setup is a pain. On the other hand, the cost of buying one out of exotic tool steel would presumably be much greater; and I don't have to price my shed time (prob. just as well!).

[hughie]

[

Another take-out, if I read the graphs correctly, is that the most exotic tool steels reduce the wear rate by half. Whether that makes them worth the $$ for hobby turners is moot.

Thats a very good point Ern. Theres some real exotic steel out there but its very pricey.

I am looking at some at the moment M42 and trying to get the price down so it I can have a go at making some thing out of it. Plus it often takes some sophisticated heat treating to boot to get it right.

[Dave Peebles]

Hi Hughie,

One thing that should be mentioned is that Doug Thompson does indeed make the steel for JoHannes turning tools.

I have several of Doug's tools, and believe the wear is comparable or better than my old Glaser tools. It does seem to hold a fine edge for a good long time. But Doug is a friend of mine, so please take this with a grain of salt.

I cetainly do not understand all the details about the metal stuff, but is sure is my go to gouge these days.

Turning is always more fun than sharpening.

Best wishes,
Dave

[rsser]

Actually Dave his website says he gets his steel from Crucible.

[Dave Peebles]

Hello Ern,

Yes, that is where the steel comes from, but Doug makes them up for him.

If you check out this youtube video he talks about it at around the 2:58 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFtNiZTp_AI

He also has some awesome handles. I got a chance to play with one for a bit at the AAW Symposium.

Best wishes,
Dave

[hughie]

Hi Dave,

I have several of Doug's tools, and believe the wear is comparable or better than my old Glaser tools. It does seem to hold a fine edge for a good long time. But Doug is a friend of mine, so please take this with a grain of salt.

This is the sort of thing I was after in posting this, somebodies first hand experience, thanks

Turning is always more fun than sharpening.

Sharpening ....sigh.... a necessary evil in the scheme of things.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Just out of curiosity, how do the cryo-treated tools compare to good HSS - let's say the equivalent P&N tools - for price?

Sharpening ....sigh.... a necessary evil in the scheme of things.

You mean bevel-rubbing practice?