Thread: GIS X or Raid Special

Hello Ian,

Interesting concept!

20-25 kg would be extremely light for the size. But even if a bit heavier, it would still be a feather weight!

Fixed seat rowing only in the big European raids (that is Said Caledonia and Raid Finland, not sure whether they do much rowing in the Venice raid and la Semaine de Golfe du Morbihan in Britany, France).

On Loch Ness in a blow there usually is no real favourable side. Due to the shape, size and height of the bordering hills of the Great Glen (the great valley) the wind tends to follow the direction of the valley resulting in either a southwesterly wind or a northeasterly one coming straight head on or right from the back. The lake gets very choppy everywhere when it starts to blow and rowing might get quite difficult.

I am not saying that it cannot be done; I know of a fearing with 3 strong Norwegians that did very well in one of the early editions rowing everything to windward and sailing only the downwind legs and winning most (if not all) of the rowing legs but also some of the combined ones where you either row, sail or do both.

Very good to see this old thread revived with new ideas! Will keep following it with great interest.

Best regards,

Joost

Originally Posted by Joost

20-25 kg would be extremely light for the size. But even if a bit heavier, it would still be a feather weight!

The lake gets very choppy everywhere when it starts to blow and rowing might get quite difficult.

Hi Joost, I haven't done a proper analysis of how much it would weigh, just went off the CLC Chesapeake double which is 30kg at a size of 21ft by 30 inches in 4mm ply. That weight includes a lot of 6oz glass, both inside and out, which I think, agreeing with Mik, is quite unnecessary.

Second thoughts, 44 inches is quite a lot more than 30 inches, so maybe 25 - 30 kg is more realistic. My skin in frame version maybe only 15kg - you'd have to watch it didn't blow away in the air!

I'm a sea kayaker, not a rower, but to paddle the boat needs to be too narrow to be stable enough for sailing, that's why I'd try the oars on it.

In my experience on the ocean and lakes similar to Loch Ness, paddling a kayak I can beat anything less than a biggish keel boat to windward, in principle a narrow rowboat should go faster than the kayak, especially with two rowing, but would have more difficulty handling the chop.

Surprisingly, the kayak can keep up with a sailboat quite well going down wind in a blow - the sailboat can't go faster than half the wind speed, but the kayak can catch some big waves and surf for a bit - great fun.

I caught up with a big trailer sailer about 10 miles off the coast of Vancouver Island running downwind in 25 knots and big seas, they got such a surprise seeing me out there they stopped watching what they were doing and jybed on a wave with the jybe preventer on, snapped their boom and ripped their main in half. Thought I'd have both of them sitting on the deck of my kayak if the boat filled, but they got it up again...

Ian

Ian breaks boats just by looking at them.

Originally Posted by IanHowick

Regarding getting a boat like the GIS up a beach on your own - have you tried taking 4 fenders: Tie them together end to end in two pairs and you have two soft rollers to roll the boat up a beach. (Helps to have a small kid with you to run each roller from the back to the front as you make progress up the beach.)

Ian

This is how I usually get the boat up and down the beach, but I do need a second person to help, like with Jason (friend) or Alzuger. The boat comes in around 145lbs or so, add the mast, rig, anchors, blades, and it starts to add up for me when I pull it up the beach. I could get some tackle and such, but that's even more line to carry, etc. Going down to the water is ok, if there are no big rocks. The distance that one can cover on one roll is prodigious, however.

That is of course a solution to shipping so much water over the bow - stop trying to go so damn fast on the open ocean where you're second reefed and still needing to hike out to keep the boat upright!

If you find something (that weighs less than the crew) that you can go fast in with confidence in those sorts of conditions that doesn't slam and take the occasional green wave over the front, let me know!

This is where Mik works his magic and designs that sweet siren of a design of which we all wish for! No pressure, Mik.

EDIT I really love my GIS, I hope no one thinks otherwise, she is an amazingly capable boat. The compound curve in the bow makes for a really clean bow wave. Maybe the next one should have a cuddy cabin so I can hole up when it rains and read with my lantern. And maybe a little stove. And a bunk. With storage. Sailing season must be ending, because my imagination is on overdrive. And it's cold out, so cabins seem ideal right now. hmmmmm

That is of course a solution to shipping so much water over the bow - stop trying to go so damn fast on the open ocean where you're second reefed and still needing to hike out to keep the boat upright!

If you find something (that weighs less than the crew) that you can go fast in with confidence in those sorts of conditions that doesn't slam and take the occasional green wave over the front, let me know!

I bought a new metal cutting saw a few years ago. It is a great piece of equipment, and loads larger and more versatile than any one I had owned previously. Funny thing though, I had had it only a few weeks before I was trying to figure out how to use it to cut a piece of steel for a job that was a good bit larger than it's rated capacity. Before, I would have just turned down the project and not made any made any money on it, but since I has this new badass saw, I figured I'd give it a shot. After some thinking and a bit of care in the setup, my steel was cut and my saw was none the worse for it.

Same thing happened a year or two ago when I bought a big steel bending roller.

The point is that 95% of the time I'm working on regular projects and the equipment is ideal and being used as designed. It is, however, the nature of these things once you get to know them, to squeeze that extra 5% out of them. And if you are careful they and you are none the worse for it.

Same thing with the boat. I chose the Goat Island Skiff, because it was versatile, looked fast (is fast too), was inexpensive to build and rig, and above all it was light and simple. These were my criteria because I will mostly be using it solo or with 1 other person, will generally be hand launching, and I need it to not take up much space when I store it. For 95% of my sailing needs it is perfect, and for the other 5% I'll make it work and everything will be just fine. If I want something that is designed for cruising and sleep aboard in heavier weather it will be bigger, heavier, more complicated, significantly more expensive, and i will in fact be sacrificing a good deal of my 95% of the time sailing, for that last 5%. This is no good.

Now maybe a fabric dodger over the bow will help keep some of the water out the few times I'm pounding to windward in a big blow, and maybe something like Watermat's drain tubes would help remove excess water when the waves are crashing. But it is really nice to be able to just reach up front to get at stuff, and for now I don't want to cut any holes in my rear buoyancy tank now that my boat is done.

The point in all of this is that is is in our nature to push things, and figure out how to squeeze every last bit out of any given design, whether it is a saw or a boat. For now I cant justify the expense/space taken up by/time wasted fiddling with a more complicated boat, just like I am not going to buy a bigger saw any time soon. But it is a balance that you are constantly re-weighing, and when you find that you are pushing it 40% or 50% of the time or more, maybe then it is time for bigger/heavier/more complicated/expensive/etc.

sorry for the ramble. . .

-Al

It is well worth dropping in to see Al's blog.
http://goatislandskiffny.tumblr.com/

He is doing something very unusual - cruising his boats in New York.

He carries a radio tuned in to the same frequency as the commercial shipping so he can hear their chatter - and even the remarks about his boat - the commercial traffic shares info and just chat.



Lots of comments about his PDR which he used to do the same thing in - 'funny little boat'.

Did you write a piece about that Al?

Some of the pics put me in mind of urban adventuring - climbing structures or finding tunnels (hopefully without trains in them).

By the way - those painted oars with the red tips are the bees knees - very classic presentation!

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

It is well worth dropping in to see Al's blog.

What is the URL/Link to Al's blog?

There are lots of links to individual photos, but I haven't found a link to the whole blog.

Thanks,

Ian

...uh... the link is under Al's name at the bottom of each of his posts.

Unfortunately, I don't see anybody's signatures or avatars. For some reason this forum is screwy with my computer. I think my blog address is posted on the bottom of my posts, but I don't know, since I can't see it. Or the picture besides my name. Did I ever put a picture by my name? I forget, now actually.

Ian might have the same annoying problem.

Building a Goat Island Skiff

Originally Posted by callsign222

Unfortunately, I don't see anybody's signatures or avatars. For some reason this forum is screwy with my computer. I think my blog address is posted on the bottom of my posts, but I don't know, since I can't see it. Or the picture besides my name. Did I ever put a picture by my name? I forget, now actually.

Ian might have the same annoying problem.

Building a Goat Island Skiff

It isn't the forum that's "screwy", it is in your settings.

If you go to your User CP (top left hand corner, next to iSpy), then Edit Options, scroll down to Thread Display Options, select which elements you want to display in posts, and William is your uncle

Huh. Whaddya know.

Not as screwy, but still screwy, have you seen the types that post around here?

EDIT Actually, then why are these options turned off on my computer logged in my account, but when I sign into my account on my wife's computer, they are turned on? Still screwy, but fixed now on my computer. Thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by callsign222

Huh. Whaddya know.

Not as screwy, but still screwy, have you seen the types that post around here?

Yep, but you should see the types we don't allow to post

Originally Posted by callsign222

EDIT Actually, then why are these options turned off on my computer logged in my account, but when I sign into my account on my wife's computer, they are turned on? Still screwy, but fixed now on my computer. Thanks for the tip.

Some "screwy" type switched them off perhaps?

Originally Posted by callsign222

Huh. Whaddya know.

x2

You are not alone. I too have learned a new thing today

[wandering just a bit FARTHER off topic, I've recently added TapaTalk app to my iPhone. It's a great dedicated forum reader app and this is one of the forums I frequent that supports it. I had noticed the avatars when viewing these threads on TapaTalk, but never thought to check my CP settings. Screwiness in action. Tapatalk is available for iPhone, Android, Blackberry and Nokia.]