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Thread: Which Boat To Build
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1st September 2007, 12:58 PM #31
Cheers AJ - it was a bit of a divergence - and a modern NS14 is a tricky beast to sail - having the original hulls in plywood restricted the tricky curves and hollows the new ones use - that made them a good compromise of speed and ease of sailing.
Of course the non-class area is the part of sailing that is booming - possibly with the exception of the PDRacers - which are booming as a class boat. The fleet there has gone from 75 up to 160 boats in the last year and a bit.
But I am on the edge of diverging ...
It is a good point. If you learn how to sail really well - even on a no spinnaker, no jib, no trapeze boat it takes very little time to work out how to use those other bits when you come across them. The biggest thing to understand is how to move the crew around the boat and get them in the right place and co-ordinating sail trim with changes in wind direction and speed and coordinating steering with sail trim changes.
You get those three things right and you can sail ANY boat really well. Maybe the first one becomes very unimportant in bigger boats anyhow.
So there is a valid point in building a non class boat. Usually it is way cheaper for a start - most class boats having gone down the path of having gear to adjust every single aspect of sail shape which adds a lot of expense.
Something like the boats you mention about will usually have around 5% of cost tied up in all the fittings, but conventional class racing boats often have a fittings bill around 30% of the total build cost. For senior dinghies it can be way more - I think to cover the fittings on a Sharpie or 505 starts to get up round the $3-4000 mark - that's enough to completely build and finish most non class boats of a similar size (to the 505 at least).
Most of the class boats at the beginning of this thread are at the more modest end of the range and some have restricted these sorts of cost to some degree. The sabre has some good restrictions on fittings for example - so represents the way that a lot of the other classes could have gone.
In general the cheapest way into a popular class boat is to buy a boat in the middle range of prices rather than build. You get almost the same money back at the end. But there need to be lots of active boats to stand a fair chance of selling.
Best wishes
MIK
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1st September 2007, 10:08 PM #32
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2nd September 2007, 01:59 AM #33
Agreed Graeme. What a pity more clubs haven't realised that the mass population entry level into sailing is a budget conscious, family friendly boat with good sea-keeping & manners. Quite aside from other commitments I have on weekends, my main barrier to club racing is the ridiculous cost to be competitive in anything other than Sabres or Paper Tigers. I just keep coming back to the Vagabonds I learnt in, and the Wright Intermediates I raced as a teen-ager. Strict one-design boats that cost couldn't escalate out of reach. We could win races with our 20y/o hull #5 & rigging Mk.1 against brand new boats. Not often, but the boats were similar enough to reward skill rather than depth of pocket.
Something like these perhaps. http://www.dinghy.pl/
Mik, maybe the wrong design was named Eureka ? Maybe it's time to knock up a Pacer analogue with PDR-like fittings, chisel its class rules in stone, & hawk it around the clubs as their salvation from oblivion...
cheers
AJ
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20th November 2008, 01:40 PM #34
WELCOME to the XXXX GOLD BOAT BUILDING PROJECT.
Yep ... they have a link to here.
Here are some links to simple boats that work well
http://www.pdracer.info - simple, cheap sailboat that works
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans.htm - the mother lode - includes the kitchen sink
http://homepage.mac.com/peterhyndman/eureka/ - simple canoe
http://www.instantboats.com/ - some simple boats including powerboats
http://www.pdracer.com - the best place to look at cheap boatbuilding technology and resources.
There is more general boatbuilding advice under this post.
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28th June 2009, 04:00 PM #35Timberlove
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Hi Graeme,
I've just bought a timber decked, fibreglass hulled NS14 called Hullabaloo, with the number 1316. There are some pictures of it posted here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39865863@N04/
I'm told I need to replace the deck so I'm hoping to find plans for one. Do you have any idea where I should start? Thanks, Rik
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29th June 2009, 11:52 AM #36Timberlove
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I wholeheartedly agree with you AJ. I'm very new to club sailing and I'm really surprised at how poor the participation rate is. My kids have both played soccer and even the small clubs around here have scores of junior members. Their club has almost a thousand. Meanwhile there are only about thirty active juniors at their first sailing club and their seems to be less at another club where we recently did a clinic. In year 5 or 6 I built a two person tobogan that wasn't technically much simpler than the PD looks to build. And, given the price of them, I really think you're right. The PD could well be a way to greatly increase sailing as a sporting option. And whether or not existing sailing clubs are interested,surely schools, PCYCs and other organisations could be approached to get involved.
I'd be interested in putting a little time into it over here in NSW, if anyone wanted to float the idea.
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29th June 2009, 01:05 PM #37
Rik,
Have a look at the "Firebug" at the excellent web site at
www.firebug.co.nz
This little beauty was designed by the late John Spencer who designed many of the best known small perfomance dinghies over his lifetime.He was an expert at getting small boats to perform.
Firebug was conceived not long before he died & demonstrates this great designer's passion for making affordable boats available for all to able to build to get people back into sailing,be it to race or just for fun.The class has a clear set of rules which will keep boats competitive but not stifle minor design changes.
They are catching on in Sydney with several already at Ryde/Concord sailing club & had a stand at this year's Sydney Boat Show with a couple of boats under construction for all to see.
If you have the latest copy of AABB there is an interesting article there & lots more in previous editions otherwise their web site is chock full of information & pictures.
This design has really caught on & hundreds have been built.
Al
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29th June 2009, 02:23 PM #38Timberlove
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They are a good looking boat with a very catchy name and very good website. I particularly like the links for community + school promotion. One thing I couldn't find on the site though was a measurement of performance (ave speed, top speed, or something) or a price.
I did read that "the cost is about one third the cost of a similar sized ready to sail boat" but no actual estimate of price, which I'd like because, frankly, 1/3rd of a similar sized readymade is still a lot of money for lots of people. That's one of the very appealing things about a self build PD. It costs a few hundred. Most kids and parents could afford that and my sailing club which isn't in a wealthy part of town could afford many more boats. Do you know the cost and performance?
Either way though, this low cost intro is one way to go to boost sailing juniors. Has anyone mounted a serious promotional push yet?
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29th June 2009, 04:59 PM #39
Rik,
Give Ryde/Concorde a bell & get a lead to one of the boats that have sailed there.
Failing that,contact Peter Tait in NZ at Firebug HQ.I have spoken with him in the past & he is very forthcoming with information.
I remember reading on their site that it costs about $900-$1400 to build depending how much you make yourself(they have plans for all the fittings if you want to make your own).Many people seem to buy the mast,rigging & sail direct from NZ so it must be good value.
Peter would give you leads to all the OZ builders.
As far as speed goes,they are only 8' so are limited,but reading all the reports from NZ,they seem to handle heavy weather well without coming apart.John Spencer was one of the better designers of our time.
Go back to their site & look under "builder comments".You'll find many references to heavy weather sailing especially one towards the bottom from a fellow in Sydney.
Al.
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15th August 2009, 11:39 AM #40Awaiting Email Confirmation
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Hey Basicc,
I to am about to start a build with my son (hopefully soon anyway) but I looking at a Touring canoe with outriggers that I intend to make into covered platforms. From what I have researched I will be able to take it out into a number of conditions although I only intend to keep it on the lake. I think the idea of building something with my son is something I am truly looking forward to as it will be an excellent bonding exercise (hopefully) I am looking to get my father-in-law into it with us as well (plus he has the huge shed) I would be interested in knowing what you finally settled on and would love to see some pics
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17th August 2009, 12:41 PM #41Intermediate Member
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Firebug dinghies
I guess I'm the enthusiast for Firebugs in Sydney referred to on the Firebug.co.nz website.
I've sailed mine hard for three years and no breakages. Not bad! Apart from my ninety kg, she is often used by juniors who find her more challenging than the Sabots, but requiring less weight than the Spirals. Her 9mm thick bottom makes her pretty tough, it makes her incredibly easy to build too.
I've also given numerous sailing lessons to other adults, with no drama; not bad for an eight footer.
Her speed is restricted by her size, but she planes surprisingly easily and is the most manouverable boat I've sailed in fifty years. She handles conditions on the Parramatta river, ferry washes and all easily but I have not taken her to sea.
We hope to send a team to the South Island (NZ) champs in 2011.
My son plans to build one at Christmas, he should get the woodwork finished in a week and another week for painting. It's so quick because you can pre-asemble components before adding them to the basic structure, thus glue can be curing on one job while the next is worked on.
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