Thread: Treating wood dust allergy problems

Sorry to hear about your allergy?

I remember doing the sinus rinse thing when I lost my sense of smell for 6 weeks in 2002, most unpleasant.
It's not something I've had to so since and would not want to be doing even on a irregular basis.

What sort of respirators and extractors are you working with?

Originally Posted by BobL

Sorry to hear about your allergy?

I remember doing the sinus rinse thing when I lost my sense of smell for 6 weeks in 2002, most unpleasant.
It's not something I've had to so since and would not want to be doing even on a irregular basis.

What sort of respirators and extractors are you working with?

Hi Bob, I agree, its not particularly pleasant, though far far better than lying in bed trying to sleep but can't because my mouth is so dry from not being able to breath through my nostrils for the past 3 days, not to mention the amount of chemicals used to counteract the symptoms.

I have 3 extractors in my workshop: a 1hp and a 2hp both ducted around my lathe plus a fine particle filter near ceiling height. I also leave the shed door (large) open most of the time - even when not in there, and have placed my lathe near the door. A few months back I upgraded from a Trend to a 3M respirator with hood and an Adflo filter.

I only need exposure to a small amount of dust to cause a flair up and drugs are only so effective. Actually, I really don't enjoy flushing, but I enjoy sleeping and being able to taste red wine a whole lot more!!

Originally Posted by Phily

Hi Bob, I agree, its not particularly pleasant, though far far better than lying in bed trying to sleep but can't because my mouth is so dry from not being able to breath through my nostrils for the past 3 days, not to mention the amount of chemicals used to counteract the symptoms.

I agree. In my case it was MDF sanding outside that did the deed. I don't really know if the sinus rinse helped in my case. I was not experiencing breathing difficulties but I did it for a couple of weeks and then stopped - 4 weeks later my senses of smell started to return. I was amazed to see how the lack of a sense of smell affected taste. For example I could eat an onion no problem. Most food and drinks tasted ordinary to terrible. Beer tasted like dishwater. What it did was trigger me to do something about wood dust in my shed although it did take some time to fully get my act together on it.

I have 3 extractors in my workshop: a 1hp and a 2hp both ducted around my lathe plus a fine particle filter near ceiling height. I also leave the shed door (large) open most of the time - even when not in there, and have placed my lathe near the door. A few months back I upgraded from a Trend to a 3M respirator with hood and an Adflo filter.

Do you have your DCs outside or enclosed in an airtight enclosure that is vented outside?
If not you those DCs will simply be recirculating fine dust throughout your shed.
Sorry to be blunt but the filters on most DCs are not worth a row of beans.
In addition all of the DCs I have tested leak and some DCs make more fine dust than they pick up, and it's the very fine dust that causes allergies and other problems.
Room air filters are OK for very light work like hand tools but they are cannot cope with the volume of dust generated by something like turning.
The best thing they are good for is clearing a small space of fine dust over several hours so that fine finishes can be applied in a dust free environment.

I only need exposure to a small amount of dust to cause a flair up and drugs are only so effective. Actually, I really don't enjoy flushing, but I enjoy sleeping and being able to taste red wine a whole lot more!!

Well its good that you can get some sleep.

You probably know most or all of this but just in case new turners are reading this thread.

Wood turners are amongst the woodworkers with the greatest exposure to wood dust and your situation highlights their problem.

What it sounds like is is your shed is constantly bathed in fine invisible dust and unless you wear your respirator at all times in the shed and keep wearing it until you remove your clothes and have a shower you will be continually exposed to fine dust. The amount of fine dust that settles ON and INSIDE clothing is usually enough to trigger an allergy.

The only way to be sure to keep the dust off your clothes it to fully extract the fine dust at source. This requires large volumes of air be move that standard 1 and 2HP DCs are more really capable of moving.
A 3HP or more DC with 6" ducting all the way (including through the DC impeller) and put the DC outside or enclose the DC in an air tight enclosure inside the shed and vent the enclosure outside the shed.

At the lathe, dust collection can be enhanced by using a Bell Mouth Hood as shown below.
Its performance in collecting dust is substantially better than a naked duct end or a rectangular hood.
I have tested all my setups with a dust particle counter which can detect minuscule amounts of dust in air.
For example it can easy detect the increase in external dust from an increase in traffic at peak periods on a reasonably major road about 300 m from my house.
This means the best time for testing is early Sunday mornings or Monday mornings of weekends.

My dust extraction setup is effective enough so that I can turn without a mask or respirator and not be exposed to any fine dust at operator head height. It's not a complete sawdust collection solution as there are heaps of chips all over the bench and floor but the chips wont hurt you like the fine dust will.


Pusher2.jpg

Spot on Bob, when beer starts tasting like dishwashing liquid its time to take action!!!

And also spot on, I wrote the post with beginners in mind. The issue for me began in my previous shed where ignorance and a " won't happen to me" attitude resulted in a very inadequate dust extraction environment. But it did happen to me.

The 1hp and 2hp extractors are external. I made a dust deputy that is very effective in collecting dust/shavings and is far easier to empty than the extractor bags (and far less dusty). But even this attention to detail doesn't make up for the poor attitude I had when first taking up turning. Yes, BIG kick up the bum message for any turners with a lax attitude - unless of course you like the idea of your beer tasting like dishwashing liquid!!!

Originally Posted by Phily

The 1hp and 2hp extractors are external.

Good to hear.

You might like to see this post Improving machine cabinet dust ports

Hi, just wondering what device you use to flush your sinus? I won't go into details but for a time I was having to do that 4 to 5 times a day. For the past few years, and now forever, I am supposed to flush twice a week with a special ingredient added to the saline solution. My reason for asking is that I find it a total simple quick task and not the slightest bit unpleasant in any way, it's just remembering to do it twice a week that's the hard part for me, again just wanting to share or help in case you are doing this a different way that makes it unpleasant.

Neil Med sinus rinse for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by MandJ

Hi, just wondering what device you use to flush your sinus? I won't go into details but for a time I was having to do that 4 to 5 times a day. For the past few years, and now forever, I am supposed to flush twice a week with a special ingredient added to the saline solution. My reason for asking is that I find it a total simple quick task and not the slightest bit unpleasant in any way, it's just remembering to do it twice a week that's the hard part for me, again just wanting to share or help in case you are doing this a different way that makes it unpleasant.

I just use the Flo system. Its easy enough - its more that I haven't got used to the sensation of filling up my sinuses with water. It feels weird! Hopefully like yourself I'll get used to it!!

Originally Posted by BobL

Good to hear.

You might like to see this post Improving machine cabinet dust ports

Thanks Bob, that's a pretty impressive demo of the benefit of using a BM!

BobL, have you documented your DC system somewhere? Is it a standard 3HP DC? I'm yet to install one but I do turn in an area without walls right now, but that will change very soon and I need to get something effective installed.

Oh look, an entire forum on it! https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200

Originally Posted by Gassy

BobL, have you documented your DC system somewhere? Is it a standard 3HP DC? I'm yet to install one but I do turn in an area without walls right now, but that will change very soon and I need to get something effective installed.

Oh look, an entire forum on it! https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200

Yes you will find more than you need in that forum.
There's nothing special about my DC It's a Carbatech 3HP twin bag setup.
It's outside my shed on an outer wall opposite where the major opening/doorway is into my shed.
I threw away the silly 4" connectors that came with the DC and plumbed my shed with 6" ducting.
To operate efficiently a 3HP is restricted to about 6m runs of 6" ducting - if you need to go longer you will ned more than a 3HP DC.
Most of my machines have bell mouth hood to collect the dust and having access to a particle counter and flow gear I can test everything is working correctly.

To maintain flow on a filtered DC you MUST keep the filters clean.
If you are not keen on cleaning filters then a well designed cyclone can avoid using filters completely provided the DC is located or vented outside.
By a well designed cyclone I don't mean a dust deputy or most commercially available cyclones - these are old designs and are just too inefficient and slow down the ar flow more than clean filters do.
If you keep the filters clean you will have better flow than using most cyclones.
Only the Bill Pentz or similarly designed cyclones have minimal restrictions but even they they require a 4HP or bigger motor and large impeller to work properly.
Of course these also work on much longer ducting runs and some are able to cope with multiple machines being used simultaneously

I am at the moment one of the lucky ones who has no allergies to any wood dust. But I would like to keep it that way so I tend to go over board with masks and p2 is the minimum.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/4...nformation.pdf

What I find is that extraction to the outside world work well for me. I cought a comment by Richard Raffan a few years back about mounting a 1m fan in the wall at ground level and vent to the outside , always have it when you use the lathe.

I have a longish narrow shed with a pedestrian door at one and the lathe at the other with two 50cm fans blowing toward the door. Later I will be fitting a whirly bird vent just above the lathe and place another fan in it as well.

If I was turning on a lathe I would have a big duct made from something like concrete pier former tube with the biggest exhaust fan I could get into it and exhausting outside. Either that or duct could be made out of 3mm MDF quite easily to suit the fan used. You need to move LOTS of air and none of it holds any dust that has to be caught or filtered. I am sure Bob will further comment so I won't have to add any more. Two ducts and fans would be better, I would want to feel a breeze as the air was pulled past me into the ducts.

Shed size and shape is very important when trying to control dust by ventilation.

A long narrow shed with a large ventilation fan at one end to suck the dust out of the shed and a large opening is a useful lay out.
However, having the fan at ground level means it may not clear the dust that spins of and rises above this level and it's good to hear you are considering some roof line extraction.
The generation of wood dust usually involves some friction and heat - this means convection currents quickly carry fine dust up into the ceiling space of a shed where it can be distributed all around the shed so having something that extracts dust at the roof line makes a lot of sense.

In the case of dust, sucking is always more efficient that blowing.
Using fans to push unconstrained air is like herding cats - the air usually goes about a metre or two at most and then just doubles back on itself, in other words their effect will be minimal.
Using fans to push X CFM of air towards a door and another fan to pull Y CFM will still only result in not much more than Y CFM though the shed.

Whirlybirds are better than nothing on small sheds but even when there is wind available to drive them they are relatively inefficient at moving a lot of air.
Despite claims made to the contrary, the budget levels Whirlybirds available at the big hardware stores only move about 100 CFM in a moderate breeze and about 150 CFM in a strong wind.
While this is enough to remove hot air from a shed it will not keep up with the dust levels generated in a wood working shed and especially when turning.
Bigger Whirlybirds do move more air but cost correspondingly more and there is a point at which it's more cost effective to install forced ventilation

It would be better to put the 50 cm fans at same end of the shed as the big 1m diameter fan but higher up in the roof line. Then you would have all the fans operating at sucking dust.

In my L-shaped shed I have a 1600 cfm squirrel cage fan at the metal working end in my welding/grinding/spray painting booth. In the middle of and at the highest pint in the roofline just above my TS/router/lathe and belt sander I have a second squirrel cage fan that draws 1200 CFM. These fans are much quieter and consume much less power than conventional dust extractors and I use them when collection at source is more problematic (routing routing, belt sanding and some turning operations) and just generally for clearing dust from the shed.

Best practice suggests that collection of as much dust as possible at source is the place to start, then ventilation and then of required PPE dust control
Relying on ventilation alone almost certainly means PPE dust control is needed.