Thread: Carved Rose in Maple Wood

Very nicely done and photographed. The fine detailed petal ends would be hard to do I reckon. You did a good job of using shadow to show up the details

Wow, excellent work. More photos to come as it is finished? Please

Thank you! The curved petals were a bit of a challenge but my intention was to challenge myself to gain further experience and that it was.
More pictures as the progress occurs for sure.

Nice job on the rose, quite a lot of woods burn a bit with power tools so the sanding is very important, I usually sand to 400 grit but then I rarely ever paint wood, I much prefer natural wood grain.

yep a nice looking rose , until you look closely ! I appreciate you say it is not finished but it is going to take a lot of very patient & careful sanding to show the beauty of the depth of maple .
I only have & use knives nowadays & I take a LOT of time shaving down to a subtle tooled finish without any sanding , it leaves a lively & carefully considered burnished surface.
Have you considered using edge tools & missing out he sanding completely ,except for maybe a couple highlight on the petals ?
Quite honestly it only takes a bit longer to do than a proper sanding but adds loads of quality to the carving & it is very enjoyable carving work rather than the drudgery that sanding is.
Well that's my take on sanding mostly , depending on what the piece is of course - I know that when I have carved say dog stick heads in the past that with the pressure of money on they used to look better for having a good power sand , the sanded surface unified all the small facets which would only have happened with edge tools if I added on half the time or more again.
I find the difference between sanding well & a finely tooled finish is that with sanding the emphasis is more leaning towards the wood & it's colour & beauty whereas a tooled finish seems to draw the viewers attention more to the sculpting & it also makes for a livelier looking piece.

The biggest secret about sanding is use good paper or cloth,it speeds it up tremendously, prevents burning (lower speed helps there too).
You can pay for good abrasive paper & it will be totally unsuitable for power sanding , I found after a lot of experiment that I liked a cloth backed 240 grit , I can 4/0 wire wool it after that to get a super fine finish. The very best I ever used was - SIA 2946 , SIATUR JJ 46 06 63 , in P240 .
This Swiss sandpaper (cloth) is fabulous for this job .
Mike

Originally Posted by Mike the knife

yep a nice looking rose , until you look closely ! I appreciate you say it is not finished but it is going to take a lot of very patient & careful sanding to show the beauty of the depth of maple .
I only have & use knives nowadays & I take a LOT of time shaving down to a subtle tooled finish without any sanding , it leaves a lively & carefully considered burnished surface.
Have you considered using edge tools & missing out he sanding completely ,except for maybe a couple highlight on the petals ?
Quite honestly it only takes a bit longer to do than a proper sanding but adds loads of quality to the carving & it is very enjoyable carving work rather than the drudgery that sanding is.
Well that's my take on sanding mostly , depending on what the piece is of course - I know that when I have carved say dog stick heads in the past that with the pressure of money on they used to look better for having a good power sand , the sanded surface unified all the small facets which would only have happened with edge tools if I added on half the time or more again.
I find the difference between sanding well & a finely tooled finish is that with sanding the emphasis is more leaning towards the wood & it's colour & beauty whereas a tooled finish seems to draw the viewers attention more to the sculpting & it also makes for a livelier looking piece.

The biggest secret about sanding is use good paper or cloth,it speeds it up tremendously, prevents burning (lower speed helps there too).
You can pay for good abrasive paper & it will be totally unsuitable for power sanding , I found after a lot of experiment that I liked a cloth backed 240 grit , I can 4/0 wire wool it after that to get a super fine finish. The very best I ever used was - SIA 2946 , SIATUR JJ 46 06 63 , in P240 .
This Swiss sandpaper (cloth) is fabulous for this job .
Mike

A nice looking rose until you look closely? Ok!

Well thank you for the harsh criticism but it is only my 2nd carving and I am exceptionally aware of the differences between power carving and hand carving using chisels.
I most certainly have considered just using chisels, and even have them but I'm not quite there yet and while I appreciate the advice about the sanding speeds I'm not using power sanders. It's all been sanded by hand so there's really only one speed, ..... Slow!
The hand sanding is extremely tedious but I happen to find it very therapeutic and it helps keep me calm. It's also a great lesson in patience because it can't be rushed either.


I didn't post pictures of my work for others to compare with their own and offer criticism
I know I'm not that good but I'm proud of my accomplishments thus far. Everyone finds their own style on their own time and we are all uniquely different . It doesn't surprise me that you think 'your' work is better than mine and like it more but geez buddy.
It probably is FAR better than my work but I'm ok with where I am on my carving journey. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere and am thoroughly enjoying the entire process.
I'm quite familiar with Swiss sandpaper. It can be ordered from razortip.


For somebody who brags about how good they are with a chisel and how there's little need for sanding, you sure know a heck of a lot about power sanding.
Just sayin'

Originally Posted by Robthechisel

Nice job on the rose, quite a lot of woods burn a bit with power tools so the sanding is very important, I usually sand to 400 grit but then I rarely ever paint wood, I much prefer natural wood grain.

Thanks Rob. I very much appreciate the natural beauty of the wood without colour but this is being done for a woman and many women, prefer colour. The colours I use are made from dyes. The molecules are smaller, the colours are clearer , brighter and best of all transparent so the wood grain shows through.
This was the main reason why I wanted to show the stages.

Oh Jeeze , I'm sorry , please do remember that the net is a difficult mode of communication.
I'm used to talking to people who know my work in quite another medium & the open frankness is universally considered much more helpful & interesting than an endless stream pats on the back sort of thing .
I don't bother commenting about work for which I have a low opinion of ,nor offer praise lightly, so when I say , " yep a nice looking rose , until you look closely ! " - That's exactly what I mean . It's good , but the place for improvement is in the finishing, I then go on to outline what I've learned in 30 plus years of carving & the reasons why I hold those views.
The intention was solely to offer a little bit of help to speed your journey , you say -
"I didn't post pictures of my work for others to compare with their own and offer criticism
I know I'm not that good but I'm proud of my accomplishments thus far. "
No that's been taken completely wrongly , for "criticism " the correct word is "critique" , critique is offered as a help , an insight into possible different viewpoints & perceptions & techniques made by someone who has done it before.
All of this comparing one persons work to anothers , "Oh I'm better than him but he's much better than me " is a load of rubbish, it belongs in a psychology forum , not a woodcarving one !
Yet you already know this from some of your comments ! - " Everyone finds their own style on their own time and we are all uniquely different."
YES ! exactly .
I would never argue anything else BUT if I've been down a road more often than you & point out where there's a bad section of potholes & other possible routes you could take to have a better journey , would you defensively call me an arrogant egotist ?
I think not , merely a friendly fellow traveller I think.

Mike

Fair enough Mike! I apologize for over reacting. I honestly did appreciate the information you offered but couldn't get past the first sentence. My rational side was saying that you wouldn't have spent all that time on the post if you weren't trying to help. And honestly the sanding hasn't been all that relaxing as I've claimed. The top of the rose is only about an inch and a bit so trying to hand sand has been brutal. I'd like to learn how to use the dremel or the foredom but am very intimidated by them. This rose might not be the project to start learning all that due to mere size but I'm sure I will eventually.


I'm truly sorry Mike. I guess I don't take someone critiquing my work very well especially when it's not finished yet and your post kinda hurt my feelings.
Yes I can be over sensitive.

Forget it mate , the net really is is a difficult place to communicate , a tone can be completely misunderstood without hearing the voice & picking up all the subtle signals that we don't even know we are getting in real life.
I have misunderstood people they have misunderstood me ,it's just the way it is .

Ah, Mike you do seem to cop it when you offer the benefit of your experience. I'm guessing, you have developed a thick skin over the years. I hope so because I for one would be sorry to not have your thoughts.
Spiritwolfe - on the subject of sanding, I can tell you that in the workshop where I did my apprenticeship, the first thing you were told before you picked up a carving tool was,'under no circumstances should you use abrasives on a carving'. Now obviously you are doing a power carved object so that wouldn't apply, but Mike's comment re a finely tooled finish is worth keeping in mind.
Philip.

Mike and I worked it out. The internet is sometimes a difficult place to communicate and I certainly need to grow thicker skin.

One extremely important thing I'm learning this time around is how easily bare wood will naturally stain just from it being in my hands. I've known this all along but didn't give it the consideration it deserved.
The fact that I use hand lotion and oils on my hands is now a bigger consideration. I think I'll start using some of that non- oil sanitizer while working on carvings. I'm also going to use masking tape to cover the outside of my carving once I've gotten the basic shape. It's of significant importance especially if I'm using water based coloured dyes. Any oil including skin oil will certainly interfere with getting a nice finish.


Being this far into the project I wasn't prepared to experiment with the dremel or foredom but I did however use the bits manually to help smooth out some areas. It also gave me an opportunity to familiarize myself with them.


And Mike. I'm not sure if this is the same thing you are referring to but I also have some sanding fabrics. I use these to sand down my turned acrylics but I usually use them wet.
Now that I'm starting with fine sanding I will use these.
image.jpg


I've also decided that if I'm willing to use a chisel to carve out extremely hard acrylic that's going about 20,000 to 30,000 rpm then I guess I should be able to handle a chisel with wood that's not moving.

Hi SW, it is amazing how much natural oils are in our hands , when you're a knife carver holding the piece all the time it looks filthy & can be a big problem. What I do is that when I'm coming down to the final surface I put a light thin cotton "gardening glove" on my left holding hand.
The type with little rubber pimples make the grip sensitive & secure , this is NOT a protective glove for thse who are careless with edge tools but just something to hold the piece cleanly & securely .


Yes from the photo that softer , cloth backed abrasive looks up to the job, it may be though that to get into the deep recesses ( where the petals join the main flower) you'll need to put a bit of old credit card inside of a fold of the abrasive to do it fully.


You mention you have a dremmel , Hmmm... with a little bit of know how + a gentle touch they can make sanding a carving both quicker & more sensitve a result than hand sanding - it kind of becomes a sculpting tool. Lose attention for a second though & it's ruined! No it ain't hard at all really.


For a purist carving for the delight of it I never sand stuff I'm not going to sell , that finely tooled finish looks so much more alive to me & is a joy to do , it is the very portal into the depths of woodcarving.
If you wish to get a feel of the joys ( & frustrations !) a tooled finish you might like to consider getting the right model of pen knife , yes really a pen knife ,for a relitively small amount of money you can replicate a load of expensive chisels & gouges for the puposes of the final finishing cuts at least .
Mike

Originally Posted by Mike the knife

Hi SW, it is amazing how much natural oils are in our hands , when you're a knife carver holding the piece all the time it looks filthy & can be a big problem. What I do is that when I'm coming down to the final surface I put a light thin cotton "gardening glove" on my left holding hand.
The type with little rubber pimples make the grip sensitive & secure , this is NOT a protective glove for thse who are careless with edge tools but just something to hold the piece cleanly & securely .


Yes from the photo that softer , cloth backed abrasive looks up to the job, it may be though that to get into the deep recesses ( where the petals join the main flower) you'll need to put a bit of old credit card inside of a fold of the abrasive to do it fully.


You mention you have a dremmel , Hmmm... with a little bit of know how + a gentle touch they can make sanding a carving both quicker & more sensitve a result than hand sanding - it kind of becomes a sculpting tool. Lose attention for a second though & it's ruined! No it ain't hard at all really.


For a purist carving for the delight of it I never sand stuff I'm not going to sell , that finely tooled finish looks so much more alive to me & is a joy to do , it is the very portal into the depths of woodcarving.
If you wish to get a feel of the joys ( & frustrations !) a tooled finish you might like to consider getting the right model of pen knife , yes really a pen knife ,for a relitively small amount of money you can replicate a load of expensive chisels & gouges for the puposes of the final finishing cuts at least .
Mike

Thanks for the tips Mike. I'd considered a glove but don't normally like the feel of anything on my hands because I need to feel the wood. Adding it last minute is definitely an idea I'll seriously consider especially since I have plenty of new clean garden gloves.
I like the idea of using tape also.


I only used the dremel drill bits. There was enough variety in bits that it offered many options for cleaning up those places between the petals. Between those and increasing the fine grit in sandpaper, I got a really fabulous finish that I was so proud of but I forgot to take pictures and have been kicking myself ever since.
I'm definitely going to learn how to use those tools though.


I can definitely appreciate what you say about carving and sanding. Sanding can ruin that authentic look of a well carved piece. One thing I had a hard time smoothing out were holes that were left from the head of the drill bit. Sanding became fruitless because I ultimately thinning out areas I otherwise didn't want to so I used an exacto knife and sliced off pieces until the holes were gone. I did the same for the very centre of the Rose and I really enjoyed doing it.


One thing to keep in mind is that this is a 'commissioned' piece of work so what I'd like to do as opposed to what I have to do, come into conflict at times.lol After all the customer, is the one who ultimately decides how the piece is going to look and this woman wanted a hair stick rose with a 'Beauty and the Beast' theme . She also wanted an aged vintage look to it and added a picture. Yes it's an animated picture but she wanted a real looking rose.
We decided to not add any overhanging petals since these could easily break off if and when the stick gets dropped.
image.jpg
If this was up to me I would have just added a natural finish to emphasize the beautiful grain this maple wood had , that I didn't take a picture of. It's seriously looked very cool.


Anyway while finishing it I messed up and got green mixed with the red so have now stripped it down AGAIN!!!
Another thing I quickly realized is that I'd forgotten that since this project has been done 'with' the grain, the underneath part of the Rose is ALL end grain and end grain just doesn't hold a finish the same.
(if you know what I mean)
I've got a touch of OCD and this part just isn't working for me. I'm considering adding a bit of wood sealer on this end grain area. My reasoning is that it will at least leave a cleaner finish especially since this area soaks up finish excessively. After a while it can look murky.
image.jpg image.jpg


Do any of you have any ideas about this? Anyone? I'm open to suggestions.


This project has been very difficult BUT I really am learning a lot and I think is more important than the result of any single project.