Thread: Do craftsmen use powertools for jointing

The wonder inspiring skills that craftsmen of the past attained were born out of necessity. Flattening a board with a hand plane is a skill I've mastered purely because I don't have access to the appropriate moderm machinery. Given ready accessibility of modern power tools I think craftsmen of old may have been able to produce the same products more quickly... that's all.

The sorts of people who frequent this forum are exactly the same sorts of people who would have made working craftsmen of old. Do we not all leap at the chance to quicken our labours through modern means? I'm certain the craftsmen of old would have done exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Wongo

Where does knowledge come from?

Trial and error. Learning what works and what doesn't. Having it then passed on from person to person. That is knowledge. You break the chain of knowledge when it no longer becomes a thing that is passed on. A lot of it is still there in books but most of the people who practised it have gone.

There are organisations around the world that specialise in trying to retain that knowledge and filling in the blanks. Everything from cottage arts, through dry stone walling and agriculture, to industrial arts. I've got some publications here, for example one on making a wooden wheel for a cart. Not something that I will ever have a need to do but it's an example of a 'lost art'. If you ever had to make one, it would certainly be better if you could read how to do it than to just try and do it yourself.

Incidentally, I don't think we retain the knowledge of how the pyramids were built - I think that what we say we know about it is the result of speculation and experiment combined with archaeological evidence. Nobody has ever found the DA or construction plans as far as I know

Originally Posted by wheelinround

So like back then your saying we can learn to do without things like electricity, computer, TV, Movies, schooling or are these the things your referring to of the ways we can learn to do the things manual tasks we now use machines for.

I am saying if we started all over again from year 0, then there is no reason not to believe that 1 day someone would invent the wheel, electricity, madicine and yes even the dovetail joint. So don't question our ability.

But surely if you create a perfect mortice/tenon joint on a router table that has perfectly cut shoulder and tongue, that doesnt mean your are a great craftsman. Wouldnt it be more realistic to PRACTICE the art of making a perfect joint with a chisel that requires some skill.

Why? It's a simple operation, why does ability to scrape out a mortice with a chisel make you a better craftsman? If you picked it out with your finger nail, would that make you a virtuoso?

Originally Posted by wheelinround

Cutting a dovetail with a chisel you can cut almost any size dovetail with one or two chisels
cutting a dovetail with a router bit you can only cut the size of the bit and larger plus you need the router etc etc etc this is with out the use of a $2k jig

I understand and I only cut DT by hand too.

Hypothetically, if you could use a jig and router to cut dovetails in any size. Would you consider using it?

Originally Posted by Wongo

I understand and I only cut DT by hand too.

Hypothetically, if you could use a jig and router to cut dovetails in any size. Would you consider using it?

Oh course but not for hobby work not if its going to cost me $3k to set up to get a perfect dovetail for a couple of projects. Even business balk at doing that

I think too much emphasis is placed on how the job is done. All this attachment to hand tools I can understand from the point of view of someone interested in period details, or in emulating our grandfathers or whatever. It's all very admirable and perfectly legitimate. That doesn't mean that people who choose to use modern methods are not craftsmen in their own right. You need to stand back from the item and look beyond the joinery to see where the real craft lies.

Oh course but not for hobby work not if its going to cost me $3k to set up to get a perfect dovetail for a couple of projects.

$3k? What dovetail jig costs that much?

Originally Posted by wheelinround

Oh course but not for hobby work not if its going to cost me $3k to set up to get a perfect dovetail for a couple of projects. Even business balk at doing that

3 grand for what dovetail jig

Funny my feet are itchy seems we have been over this ground before.

Personally I prefer hand tools which I have a few even though I have a few power tools.

I have seen recently power tools produce a coffee table in a few hours where as by hand it would take a week or more.

What we tend to forget is that most of the craftsmen whose work remains for us to marvel at were at the cutting edge of their craft (no pun intended)
The move from oak to walnut then the huge shift to mahogany, teak and the other exotic woods coming as the western world expanded, all needed changes in technique. The shortage of some timbers being overcome by the development of veneering techniques that could withstand the vagaries of the European climate. All this being done with a glue that many these days regard as useless because it is susceptible to damp, and wooden bodied planes. So many these days are looking to gain that extra edge by the use of better steels. Yet that was a time when glass paper and sand paper were exactly that.
The other thing we tend to forget is that usually only the best of the past has survived. The garbage has been put out long ago.
As for today's craftsmen - it's not just technique, it's also style and other undefinable qualities. We'll only be sure what's worth it in a hundred years or so.
Jim

Originally Posted by wheelinround

Oh course but not for hobby work not if its going to cost me $3k to set up to get a perfect dovetail for a couple of projects. Even business balk at doing that

Hypothetically, just hypothetically what if Lignum would give you one for free, would you consider?

Originally Posted by Wongo

Hypothetically, just hypothetically what if Lignum would give you one for free, would you consider?

Im not like that... dont be rude

Originally Posted by Wongo

Hypothetically, just hypothetically what if Lignum would give you one for free, would you consider?

Consider yes
use maybe
take nope